QF29 VH-OJU 'stick shaker 7.4.2017' incident injures 15 passengers

[moa999]

Smoke alarms. The captain made an announcement advising pax not to worry about the smoke alarms going off. I did not feel the turbulence, and nor did I hear any alarms. I was astonished when the FA sitting opposite me on landing explained what had happened.

Quite amazing given how others have described it. Assume you were asleep at this point?

 

[TonyHancock]

Quite amazing given how others have described it. Assume you were asleep at this point?

No I was awake. :shock: I vaguely remember a little movement, but nothing that stood out. I asked a fellow passenger if he had felt anything and he hadn't.

When we got to the gate the CSM came to the front left door and made the announcement that paramedics would be boarding. She was talking to the FA seated at the door and said that she had been thrown against the ceiling.

I wish I had paid a little more attention to the announcements. There was one along the lines that the turbulence was just as bad at the front of the plane as at the back which obviously seemed very odd given I had felt nothing. It was surreal.

 

[Lemon_Party]

No I was awake. :shock: I vaguely remember a little movement, but nothing that stood out. I asked a fellow passenger if he had felt anything and he hadn't.

When we got to the gate the CSM came to the front left door and made the announcement that paramedics would be boarding. She was talking to the FA seated at the door and said that she had been thrown against the ceiling.

I wish I had paid a little more attention to the announcements. There was one along the lines that the turbulence was just as bad at the front of the plane as at the back which obviously seemed very odd given I had felt nothing. It was surreal.

Too much claret and gin perhaps?!

Or possibly if the flight was self funded you'd have paid more attention

 

[Melburnian1]

Can turbulence ever be as 'bad at the front of the plane' as at the back?

 

[Quickstatus]

Can turbulence ever be as 'bad at the front of the plane' as at the back?

Yes it can. The CofG would most likely be the only place where turbulence could be potentially less severe but not necessarily.

 

[Quickstatus]

No I was awake. :shock: I vaguely remember a little movement, but nothing that stood out. I asked a fellow passenger if he had felt anything and he hadn't.

You didn't hear any commotion/ screaming either?
Obviously your Gim was not splashed on the ceiling?

i can't imagine you sitting over the Centre of Gravity section?.

 

[straitman]

Remind me again, what exactly are Geoffrey Thomas' aviation credentials?

Here is a Prune thread on Geoffrey Thomas and his qualifications.

 

[TonyHancock]

You didn't hear any commotion/ screaming either?
Obviously your Gim was not splashed on the ceiling?

Didn't hear a thing...and I was awake, albeit with my headphones on. I first became aware when the captain made an announcement about ignoring the smoke alarms.

If you are familiar with 5B or 5J on the refurbed 747 the seats are solo and have side storage with a hinged lid. My mini iPad was on the hinged lid - I was watching a movie on it. It didn't move.

 

[Melburnian1]

...I was watching a movie on it. It didn't move.

This travel experience - I experienced nothing, I heard nothing, I saw nothing - deserves (if one can joyfully take a little poetic licence) - the inaugural 'AFF three wise monkeys' award.

I am as amazed as moa999 that you did not immediately know about the kerfuffle. Maxwell Smart's 'Cone of Silence' never worked correctly but yours does.

 

[Franky]

Without being totally sure, I would have thought that at 110km out from HKG, the aircraft would have been 'belts on, tables up, etc' for landing. Perhaps cabin crew were yet to take station for landing, but passengers should have been strapped in.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Without being totally sure, I would have thought that at 110km out from HKG, the aircraft would have been 'belts on, tables up, etc' for landing. Perhaps cabin crew were yet to take station for landing, but passengers should have been strapped in.

The aircraft was in a holding pattern at a reasonably high altitude. Pretty unusual seat belt signs would be on at that point unless there was turbulence. And Qantas operate with a policy that if the sign is on it applies to crew as well.

 

[TonyHancock]

Without being totally sure, I would have thought that at 110km out from HKG, the aircraft would have been 'belts on, tables up, etc' for landing. Perhaps cabin crew were yet to take station for landing, but passengers should have been strapped in.

Seat belt signs weren't on. We were in a holding pattern.

 

[yohy?!]

It's very common for flights to hold for short periods on arrival just outside HK due to congestion in the Pearl River Delta airports

 

[Franky]

Thanks to all above for the info.

 

[jb747]

It's very common for flights to hold for short periods on arrival just outside HK due to congestion in the Pearl River Delta airports

I haven't been there for a couple of years, but historically it was pretty rare, unless the weather was poor. And then there can be so many thunderstorms in the area that you're hard pressed to avoid them.

 

[Happy Trails]

The ATSB final report has now been issued.
Investigation: AO-2017-044 - In-flight upset involving Boeing 747-438, VH-OJU, 110 km SE of Hong Kong Airport, on 7 April 2017

While descending toward Hong Kong International Airport, air traffic control instructed the flight crew to hold at waypoint BETTY.

When entering the holding pattern, the aircraft’s aerodynamic stall warning stick shaker activated a number of times and the aircraft experienced multiple oscillations of pitch angle and vertical acceleration. During the upset, passengers and cabin crewmembers struck the cabin ceiling and furnishings.

The ATSB found that while planning for the descent, the flight crew overwrote the flight management computer provided hold speed. After receiving a higher than expected hold level, the flight crew did not identify the need to re-evaluate the hold speed. This was likely because they were not aware of a need to do so, nor were they aware that there was a higher hold speed requirement above FL 200. Prior to entering the hold, the speed reduced below both the selected and minimum manoeuvring speeds. The crew did not identify the low speed as their focus was on other operational matters.

The ATSB also found that due to a desire to remain within the holding pattern and a concern regarding the pitch up moment of a large engine power increase, the pilot flying attempted to arrest the rate of descent prior to completing the approach to stall actions. In addition, the pilot monitoring did not identify and call out the incomplete actions. This resulted in further stall warning stick shaker activations and pilot induced oscillations that resulted in minor injuries to cabin crewmembers and passengers.

Additionally, the operator provided limited guidance for hold speed calculation and stall recovery techniques at high altitudes or with engine power above idle. This in turn limited the ability of crew to retain the necessary manual handling skills for the recovery.

 

[Melburnian1]

View attachment 95577

Losing faith in QF over this = drama queen to me.

The ATSB report took a lot longer to be issued than the 'August 2017' timetable it set itself.

QF has copped severe criticism about lack of training of its pilots re this incident that has led to national media headlines.

On another blog I read, a poster commented that QF has had its share of 'luck' with incidents. Unfortunately, 'luck' has a tendency to eventually run out...not that we wish that on any entity.

If the CSM indeed hit his head on the aircraft ceiling as reported, that's a fairly severe workplace injury. Just as a matter of information, is it possible for people to be killed when they hit their head like this as a result of turbulence, or has that (thankfully) never occurred in the history of modern aviation?

 

[TonyHancock]

I'm still blown away by this incident. I was on my way to the UK and on my way back a few weeks later I was on a CX flight out of HKG to MEL. I am relatively protective about my seat selection but a lady was desperately trying to get her family seated together in the J cabin and I offered to move without being asked.

When she thanked me she explained that her son was very nervous and it stemmed from an incident a few weeks ago. She and her family was on the QF flight and were absolutely terrified by the incident. (They were back in Y or Y+) I still can't believe I felt next to nothing. I discussed the incident with a passenger, also in row 5, as we departed the plane and he hadn't felt the turbulence either. My assumption is that we were over the pivot point?

 

[jb747]

The ATSB final report has now been issued.
Investigation: AO-2017-044 - In-flight upset involving Boeing 747-438, VH-OJU, 110 km SE of Hong Kong Airport, on 7 April 2017

While descending toward Hong Kong International Airport, air traffic control instructed the flight crew to hold at waypoint BETTY.

When entering the holding pattern, the aircraft’s aerodynamic stall warning stick shaker activated a number of times and the aircraft experienced multiple oscillations of pitch angle and vertical acceleration. During the upset, passengers and cabin crewmembers struck the cabin ceiling and furnishings.

The ATSB found that while planning for the descent, the flight crew overwrote the flight management computer provided hold speed. After receiving a higher than expected hold level, the flight crew did not identify the need to re-evaluate the hold speed. This was likely because they were not aware of a need to do so, nor were they aware that there was a higher hold speed requirement above FL 200. Prior to entering the hold, the speed reduced below both the selected and minimum manoeuvring speeds. The crew did not identify the low speed as their focus was on other operational matters.

The ATSB also found that due to a desire to remain within the holding pattern and a concern regarding the pitch up moment of a large engine power increase, the pilot flying attempted to arrest the rate of descent prior to completing the approach to stall actions. In addition, the pilot monitoring did not identify and call out the incomplete actions. This resulted in further stall warning stick shaker activations and pilot induced oscillations that resulted in minor injuries to cabin crewmembers and passengers.

Additionally, the operator provided limited guidance for hold speed calculation and stall recovery techniques at high altitudes or with engine power above idle. This in turn limited the ability of crew to retain the necessary manual handling skills for the recovery.

The ATSB report took a lot longer to be issued than the 'August 2017' timetable it set itself.

QF has copped severe criticism about lack of training of its pilots re this incident that has led to national media headlines.

To be honest I find the entire 'lack of training' commentary to be rather curious. The people involved seem to have made a couple of pretty basic errors. For someone be unaware of the increased holding speed at altitutude is more indicative of individual shortcoming than general. The report also makes mention of Vref+80 at one point...that was a 767 rule of thumb. The 747 needed more.

On another blog I read, a poster commented that QF has had its share of 'luck' with incidents. Unfortunately, 'luck' has a tendency to eventually run out...not that we wish that on any entity.

You generally make your own luck.

If the CSM indeed hit his head on the aircraft ceiling as reported, that's a fairly severe workplace injury. Just as a matter of information, is it possible for people to be killed when they hit their head like this as a result of turbulence, or has that (thankfully) never occurred in the history of modern aviation?

People have been killed, though I can't provide any details.

This sadly, was very much an own goal. The setup was done though error, nobody was watching the ship, and the subsequent handling was poor.

 

[oz_mark]

When she thanked me she explained that her son was very nervous and it stemmed from an incident a few weeks ago. She and her family was on the QF flight and were absolutely terrified by the incident. (They were back in Y or Y+) I still can't believe I felt next to nothing. I discussed the incident with a passenger, also in row 5, as we departed the plane and he hadn't felt the turbulence either. My assumption is that we were over the pivot point?

Could it be that wherever you are on the plane is its center of gravity?