QF2 Passengers Stranded in Dubai

[drron]

I agree with the comment AJ missed a great chance to turn a negative into a positive.But there are CEOs and CEOs.Read this a couple of days ago,the Dallas papers are part of my reading-
What I learned about Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson after spending a week on jury duty with him | Commentary | Dallas News

 

[Skyring]

Richard Branson in that situation probably would have done something publically and got the positive publicity, like he's so good at doing!

Have to agree. As it is, all those passengers will come home grumpy and annoyed and full of blame at Qantas. Fair enough about the plane breaking down, Qantas would have preferred it the other way but it was out of their hands, and they can't fly a broken plane.

But being kept in the dark, standing around in a terminal, not knowing what was happening, that's a great way to build resentment. Like as not they are being told different stories at different times by different people.

Any CEO would have been able to find out the facts, make a decision, get it implemented. Sure, he's got very few actual QF people with him, but he's in the home of his partner EK, and they can get something going. Otherwise it's not much of a partnership.

Branson, in that situation, would most likely have been highly visible and hands-on. His aim would have gone above and beyond getting people to their destinations. It would have been about getting them there smiling and telling friends and family - and the media - how great Virgin was at sorting out what could have been a horrid experience.

Next time the passengers - and friends and family - have a choice between airlines, they'll think about more than the latest advertising campaign.

 

[moa999]

I agree with the comment AJ missed a great chance to turn a negative into a positive.

Understand the sentiment, but still think the company is best served by the CEO being located in the best place for them to act as CEO.

The 'events' got surprisingly limited media attention given the normal bash-Qantas for headlines sport that seems to go on in the Aussie press. Having AJ there in person would have created more media, but it could easily be far more negative as positive.

 

[rtyuiop]

If QF is relying on AJ to be in Sydney to do the things that seem to have gone wrong in this incident (keeping passengers updated and fixing an A380!) something has gone horribly wrong. The things he could have usefully done are improve passenger communication & perception (and therefore press) and perhaps work on getting emirates to help out... Both of which would be better done in Dubai, I would have thought.

The double whammy to PR of the airline not doing all that well with passenger care, and looking like they are bumping other passengers in order to get the plane carrying the CEO home (whether or not that's what happened, that's how it looks) is baffling to me, surely they would have seen the PR problem coming?

 

[bryanjones]

AJ could have certainly pulled a Branson, but wouldn't the COO or even the international CEO and his team in the international division be working the details?

AJ has to think of more strategic issues - labor reform, price competition, oil prices, route expansion, investor relations, etc

No doubt he missed a great opportunity for PR. But I'd kind of also hope he pulled in people who do it day to day rather than be a seagull manager

 

[nlagalle]

And It seems the airline had ZERO contingency to manage such a situation other than to dish out "care packages" , spin a one off action into a regular policy of delaying 2 plane loads so a VIP can sneak home earlier, and post inane comments on social media which made people even more angry.

And tell me what would a contingency plan be at this time of the year?? I'm quite curious to know..

Also if a VIP wanted to sneak home they could have easily offloaded 1 pax instead of the entire flight..

It's funny that in the past when this has happened people have piped up and said why didn't the commandeer the trailing aircraft and when it happens everyone is up in arms about it

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And tell me what would a contingency plan be at this time of the year?? I'm quite curious to know..

The thing about the seeming lack of contingency plan is that we really don't know. And it doesn't sound like the passengers knew either (lack of information).

The problem is that there is no apparent incentive for the airline to act... unlike EU261 which provides a strong financial incentive. Under 261 passengers are probably reassured that the airline is doing everything it can (and if not, you get your flight for free, or almost free).

in the absence of such regulation applying in Dubai, and in the absence of communication on the ground, many pax might be left wondering if QF did in fact do everything possible.

Was it that there were no seats at all on CX, AI, TG, SQ, any of the Chinese carriers, or any of the other connecting carriers? Or, was it that QF was not incentivised to actually look, and just relied on the contract of carriage which says they'll uplift you on 'the next qantas service free of charge'.

 

[nlagalle]

The thing about the seeming lack of contingency plan is that we really don't know. And it doesn't sound like the passengers knew either (lack of information).

The problem is that there is no apparent incentive for the airline to act... unlike EU261 which provides a strong financial incentive. Under 261 passengers are probably reassured that the airline is doing everything it can (and if not, you get your flight for free, or almost free).

in the absence of such regulation applying in Dubai, and in the absence of communication on the ground, many pax might be left wondering if QF did in fact do everything possible.

Was it that there were no seats at all on CX, AI, TG, SQ, any of the Chinese carriers, or any of the other connecting carriers? Or, was it that QF was not incentivised to actually look, and just relied on the contract of carriage which says they'll uplift you on 'the next qantas service free of charge'.

Lack of comms and a contingency plan are two different things. Given its about the busiest time of the year I'm guessing that there will be limited options to uplift 400+ pax onto other flights.

I'll agree it appears the comms were bad, it doesn't suggest they weren't trying to accommodate everyone. Finding 400 seats isn't an easy feat I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Lack of comms and a contingency plan are two different things. Given its about the busiest time of the year I'm guessing that there will be limited options to uplift 400+ pax onto other flights.

I'll agree it appears the comms were bad, it doesn't suggest they weren't trying to accommodate everyone. Finding 400 seats isn't an easy feat I'm sure you'll agree.

I was referring to lack of communication about the contingency plan.

And if there was a contingency plan, you'd think QF would have communicated that.

Doesnt sound like QF told all pax 'we are looking at all available airlines, all available seats to get you home'. It doesn't sound like QF offered to ticket seats any passenger was able to find through their own means. This would have been communicated.

 

[nlagalle]

I was referring to lack of communication about the contingency plan.

And if there was a contingency plan, you'd think QF would have communicated that.

Doesnt sound like QF told all pax 'we are looking at all available airlines, all available seats to get you home'. It doesn't sound like QF offered to ticket seats any passenger was able to find through their own means. This would have been communicated.

Well there is only a handful of QF staff at DXB so I'll concede any comms will always be hard with 400 pax. Also I'm sure you'll agree that it can be hard to get info from engineers other than "we're working on it" etc.

And I haven't heard any stories about people finding other routes home and QF not accommodating that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well there is only a handful of QF staff at DXB so I'll concede any comms will always be hard with 400 pax. Also I'm sure you'll agree that it can be hard to get info from engineers other than "we're working on it" etc.

And I haven't heard any stories about people finding other routes home and QF not accommodating that.

QF could arrange EK staff to help with the comms, or even hire a flight disruption company who specialises in managing disrupted pax.

'we're working on it' means what? It could mean they're actually trying their hardest to fix the problem as quickly as possible, or it could mean they're waiting for a part to be sent from Australia because it's cheaper than buying a part from Emirates.

without full communication pax are left wondering.

 

[nlagalle]

QF could arrange EK staff to help with the comms, or even hire a flight disruption company who specialises in managing disrupted pax.

'we're working on it' means what? It could mean they're actually trying their hardest to fix the problem as quickly as possible, or it could mean they're waiting for a part to be sent from Australia because it's cheaper than buying a part from Emirates.

without full communication pax are left wondering.

Of course because EK staff wouldn't be busy enough as it was.. and hiring a company takes time. They probably wouldn't be on the ground before the disruption is over..

As for working on it, it isn't a matter of "buying a part off EK. They run different engines for a start so there are incompatibility issues. And really if you have engineers working on the problem do you want to disrupt them every 30 mins to keep providing updates???

You could easily tell pax what is going on in full and they'd still complain..

 

[Quickstatus]

The best disruption contingency during peak travel periods and maximum aircraft utilisation is to have maximum staffing at the airport, and saturate the communications channel.

Passengers were most annoyed at being kept in the dark or the perception of. Disrupted passengers have their bull carp antenna deployed and can quickly detect when they have been "given the run around". Information should come from a real company rep and not through social media or an app.

QF32 should have taught the airline that in a crisis, get the passengers on your side, get the story right so every employee is on the same page, and inform, inform, inform. Do not give the passengers a chance to feel they are in an information vacuum.

Why is QF32 so positive for the airline and QF2 so negative. Both are technical aircraft problems causing mass disruptions.

You could easily tell pax what is going on in full and they'd still complain..

 

[nlagalle]

Why is QF32 so positive for the airline and QF2 so negative. Both are technical aircraft problems causing mass disruptions.

QF32 was so "positive" because what could have been a fatal accident was a miracle landing. That put the gloss on the whole incident.

I don't know any airline that effectively handles major disruptions well. People will always complain about something.

 

[Quickstatus]

QF32 was so "positive" because what could have been a fatal accident was a miracle landing. That put the gloss on the whole incident.

I don't know any airline that effectively handles major disruptions well. People will always complain about something.

The perception could have gone either way. The follow-on was that passengers on QF32 were well taken care off. Miracle landing or not, if those passengers were not well taken care of the mood could have quickly changed. These passengers were informed and kept in the loop.

Giving a passenger a hotel and meal voucher is compensation but will not make them less cranky. Whats missing?

 

[JohnK]

I have found Qantas usually quite good with delays/cancellations but obviously understaffed in DXB.

In a way I like the idea Qantas moved people around so that everyone was delayed a little rather than one group delayed longer.

 

[Quickstatus]

I have found Qantas usually quite good with delays/cancellations but obviously understaffed in DXB.

In a way I like the idea Qantas moved people around so that everyone was delayed a little rather than one group delayed longer.

Hi JohnK! happy new year to you and your mob!
Yes in my experience QF has been good to me when my travels with them have been disrupted (though not as severely as QF2). Maybe its because we are both WP?

One of the benefits of interlining passengers luggage to a second PNR is that the airline gets to know that the passenger has onward connections. During disruptions this is important.

 

[nlagalle]

The perception could have gone either way. The follow-on was that passengers on QF32 were well taken care off. Miracle landing or not, if those passengers were not well taken care of the mood could have quickly changed. These passengers were informed and kept in the loop.

Giving a passenger a hotel and meal voucher is compensation but will not make them less cranky. Whats missing?

So what else should QF be doing? The pax were accommodated, given food vouchers etc. aside from now knowing exactly when they are departing I'm not sure what else your expecting?

Of course if the engineers have no ETA on a fix how do you communicate that? And guaranteed people will still complain.

 

[JohnK]

Hi JohnK! happy new year to you and your mob!
Yes in my experience QF has been good to me when my travels with them have been disrupted (though not as severely as QF2). Maybe its because we are both WP?

Happy new year to you and your family.

Maybe it's because we are Platinum but from my understanding Qantas have a "disruptions" team that usually kick into action during delays/cancellations. They may no longer be around or on holidays at this time of the year.

 

[Conrad_S]

2 cents worth from me.
The CEOs personal life is irrelevant. Their role is strategic and as an employee I'd be quite happy if they stayed out of operations. As for the Richard Branson comments I'm not aware of any evidence that it was a stage managed PR opportunity with creepy references to women involved so I don't see the connection.

No one here appears to have sufficient information on why the 2nd plane delay played out the way it did. I think the least likely scenario is to get the CEO back to Australia. I'm sure they could have found other solutions to get one person back. We don't know what the passenger composition of the first flight was and there may have been reasons to get them to Australia as quickly as possible. Frankly I'm quite happy with the decision to get the passengers who travelled earlier here for new years.

It seems to me that the reports indicated Qantas did a reasonable job of informing passengers of what they knew. This is obviously a personal perspective and I wasn't an economy passenger without status sitting at the gate in Dubai (you have my sympathy). Delays are part of flying and I've never understood the angst it causes people. I'm happy to fly when the people that know something about it say the chances are good of getting up and down. It seems everyone was provided with food and shelter.

Sometimes stuff happens. Social media provides an easy way for people to whine about about anything and create a reinforcing view of the scale or nature of their issue. In reality everyone safely got where they wanted, didn't starve and have an interesting story for the next time they are out to dinner.