QF2 diversion to Baku

[Larko1]

I wonder if it will go on time

 

[exLXCXFF]

Departed 34mins ago, with a 2 hours delay against original schedule.

Supposed arrival into the Little Red Dot around 0630am, on time for breakfast

 

[VPS]

There have been a number of derogatory comments on here and the AFF Facebook page about this issue.

A perfectly healthy person can board an aircraft and still have an unknown or unexpected medical issue

 

[Quickstatus]

I wonder if Qantas will be a bit "stricter" on these flights with offloading passengers who appear to have any sort of signs of illness or other possible issues upon boarding?

QF passengers need to see a Dr at the gate for a medical checkup before boarding as a final check plus those over 50 need a stress test and a medical checkup before they can buy a ticket. Anyone with prescription medicines cannot fly full stop and if a passenger coughed at the gate, boarding will be denied. Oh and cannot fly if over the age of 70.

 

[nancypants]

Just to add my 2 cents having been cabin crew, military and now medical
Part of the extended hours with military ops was the use of “go pills” and “no go pills”. Feel free to google it and decide if you want your civilian pilot being medicated for your convenience

Medical equipment varies wildly by airline and aircraft- one of the birds I flew had an array of stuff- surgical instruments and even a set of obstetric forceps. Never used. Surely removed by now. Drugs are a bigger problem due to expense and short shelf lives. Medical personnel flying as passengers may choose to familiarise themselves with some of the basics- I have an app (airRx) which lists some of the national regulations around minimum equipment, with some glaring deficits such as AEDs not being carried in all cases. My GP recently had to attend to someone on a QF (operated by alliance) flight and was fairly outraged by something being missing (I can’t remember what it was but it didn’t strike me as overly surprising!).

Those of us in remote Australia know you can manage a lot of things with the medical equivalent of a brick and a piece of string. Whether you would want to when you can just go to Baku instead, however

 

[exLXCXFF]

Departed 34mins ago, with a 2 hours delay against original schedule.

Supposed arrival into the Little Red Dot around 0630am, on time for breakfast

Bird is about to land in SIN in 20mins.

 

[jb747]

I take the point that Pakistan is perceived as high risk for many, not helped by the recent conflict with India, but there are quite a few top level medical facilities in its major cities, English speaking and a few with high standards (ironically those focussed on serving expatriates population).

The medical aspect of the diversion is handled by the medical world. They know what is available at any given place, and will recommend an appropriate destination. The ability to handle the 380 is not as widespread as you might imagine. No point in landing somewhere if you then can’t get off the runway due to taxiway restrictions.

I don’t pretend to know Baku’s medical facilities but the Smart Travel Advice does seem to warn of potential deficiencies, suggesting possible “medical evacuation to Turkiye or Western Europe“ and while the streets of Baku may be safe for many foreigners, there remains a big question mark whether the person who is sick with heart condition is better off in Baku (despite Azerbaijan being considered part of Europe) rather than some other alternatives.

The people who chose Baku do know…

No doubt the medical emergency being the precipitating cause of emergency diversion, I would suggest that ultimately the pendulum of the best interests would still be more than halfway towards the sick pax but not 100% her way ie not without due consideration to other 410 persons, in the issue of where to land to deliver her to local facilities.

Emphatically no. The other 400 people get no consideration in this instance, as it’s the safety of one person versus the convenience of the others. Consideration of the remaining passengers would be needed, if, for instance, the weather in Baku were sufficiently bad to impose a risk of its own. That same consideration would stop you flying across Iran, or landing in Pakistan.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Thank goodness we have jb747 here. Seriously thank you. The armchair experts here really have been out in force so it's good to have an actual subject matter expert here to provide the facts.

 

[Quickstatus]

provide the facts.

Yes but apart from that it seems to me that the discussion was (weirdly) mostly about how such a diversion resulted in the inconvenience for the other passengers. While it is factually an inconvenience, I can't see why it should matter given the context.

 

[XWu]

Just to add my 2 cents having been cabin crew, military and now medical
Part of the extended hours with military ops was the use of “go pills” and “no go pills”. Feel free to google it and decide if you want your civilian pilot being medicated for your convenience

Medical equipment varies wildly by airline and aircraft- one of the birds I flew had an array of stuff- surgical instruments and even a set of obstetric forceps. Never used. Surely removed by now. Drugs are a bigger problem due to expense and short shelf lives. Medical personnel flying as passengers may choose to familiarise themselves with some of the basics- I have an app (airRx) which lists some of the national regulations around minimum equipment, with some glaring deficits such as AEDs not being carried in all cases. My GP recently had to attend to someone on a QF (operated by alliance) flight and was fairly outraged by something being missing (I can’t remember what it was but it didn’t strike me as overly surprising!).

Those of us in remote Australia know you can manage a lot of things with the medical equivalent of a brick and a piece of string. Whether you would want to when you can just go to Baku instead, however

In one of my previous jobs 25 years ago I have to organise a medivac from regional Australia to Singapore via SQ. Even for an airline with good reputation, I was surprised how little medical equipment they have on board a 747. No one seemed to know what they actually have, and I have to make a trip to the airport to inspect their equipment on the plane (just to verify by eye). Made me realise how ill prepared a good service airline can be in handling medical emergency. I was sure then other airlines probably wasn’t any better.

25 years later things certainly change, FAA mandate all metal of certain capacity operating in US airspace must have AED and a medical kit (although not aware they specifically state what drugs should be on it). CASA also demand a “medical kit” to be carried but does not specify what’s in it. We know some QF metal carries AED, although not sure the state of their “medical kits”. Not sure of VA or other airlines with 100+ pax capacity planes.

My advice about getting medical drug? Make a PA call if the medical kits are hopeless. In a plane with 400+ pax, there will be some with diabetes, heart condition, severe allergy. Medicolegally potentially contentious, and the FAs will protest. But if someone have spare medication or extra unused drug delivery device and willing to give it up, the patient have a fighting chance.

It will be interesting to see those 3 surgeons trying to get IV access on that flight.

 

[markis10]

Made me realise how ill prepared a good service airline can be in handling medical emergency. I was sure then other airlines probably wasn’t any better.

Your experience 25 years ago is irrelevant, Qantas have outstanding medical equipment and facilities and this has been proven time and time again, back in 2015 it was clearly explained

The physician kits are separated and clearly defined (via a running sheet) about what is where. These kits contain licensed equipment very similar to that seen in hospitals throughout Australia. There is IV access, Airway Adjuncts, dressings, BM machine, sphygmomanometer, AED ( defibrillator), Intibation roll with disposable capnography and stethoscopes. What really impressed me was not only the quality of the kits but also the quantity made available. In a separate kit there is the medications. Anti emetics, anti spasmodics, IVABx, analgesics, vasoactives, bronchodilators, litres of NACL and CSL fluids and the usual resus drugs plus much more.

D

Thread 'Flying Safe - Medics Onboard Qantas'

Mar 25, 2015

Hi AFF Community,

I'm sure many of you have heard whilst flying "Any medical professionals onboard please make yourself know to cabin crew". The dreadful thought runs through the minds of all onboard that someone is unwell and a pending diversion is imminent!

Fear not! As a medic I have been called upon several times to assist, flying on many different carriers. However credit needs to be given where credit is due and this belongs to Qantas.

Yesterday the dreaded call came through again on my flight, just as I was asleep and comfortable (like usual!!). I was incredibly impressed with...

• dwh97

• 

You may wish to do more research before commenting , especially about IV access

 

[Quickstatus]

especially about IV access

Though i would not rely on a surgeon to get a cannula into a vein.

Some CC are RNs too

I would advocate everyone learn basic life support. I keep saying to everyone that cares to listen. An AED is an (almost) irrelevant piece of equipment if it is not backed up by basic CPR. Don't rely on finding a medically qualified person. Be familiar with Basic life support. You might save a life.

 

[XWu]

Though i would not rely on a surgeon to get a cannula into a vein.

thank goodness someone picked up on the inside joke

 

[nancypants]

I mean honestly a company organising a medivac should be supplying their own gear anyway. The medical kits on board are really for unplanned use…

 

[RSD]

Though i would not rely on a surgeon to get a cannula into a vein.

I'm one of those people that has really deeply buried veins in any of the places where access is usually sought - I've been nearly stabbed to death in E.D.'s more than once. On the other hand the one time that I have had to put a canula in to someone was on a boat that was heading at full speed back to port at 90 degrees to the wind and waves - I think that was more luck than skill!

 

[XWu]

I mean honestly a company organising a medivac should be supplying their own gear anyway. The medical kits on board are really for unplanned use…

The reason why we were checking what equipment the airline had, was that there are strict rules what electronic equipment were allowed but yet no one can tell us the specs that we were supposed to be referring to. So the only way we were allowed to bring our own equipment is to demonstrate similar specs side by side with theirs. Also, rechargeable batteries back then werent the same as now, so we have to visually check what socket were available on board and literally plug it in to make sure it fits and work.

(Even AED was in its infancy, and the top of the line model weighing 10kg can give no more than 3 shocks before running out of charge.)

This wasn’t a regular medivac arrangement, and someone on top spoke to their counterparts in SIA, pulled some strings to expedite this, as there was really very little biotech engineering support in the airline industry then as to paraphrase an airline executive from another company (ie not SIA): we’re in the transport business not healthcare.

 

[drron]

AEDs were in their infancy well before 25 years ago. I was using one in the late 70s and good old fashioned EDs before that. In the early 90s on a couple of occasions used a Packer whacker on a few occasions in the back of an ambulance.

 

[Quickstatus]

Being a passenger in an aircraft means we are just going along for the ride. You may get there or you may not. You may be on time or you may not. Zen

 

[arrow]

Being a passenger in an aircraft means we are just going along for the ride. You may get there or you may not. You may be on time or you may not. Zen

Sounds very much like a “bundle of rights”