QF2 diversion to Baku

[Quickstatus]

I heard someone say 411 total passengers

Max is 485 for the QF A380

 

[RB001]

Premium cabins were full. I think I heard someone say 411 total passengers so not sure what that means for how full the economy cabin was.

485 is a full house. (for the plane)

 

[offshore171]

Max is 485 for the QF A380

Ok so they have some capacity if they need to deadhead some crew

 

[Quickstatus]

Ok so they have some capacity if they need to deadhead some crew

Depends on where the replacement crew is coming from and whether a replacement aircraft also coming.

 

[RB001]

Depends on where the replacement crew is coming from and whether a replacement aircraft also coming.

It sounds as thought they're just bringing in an engineer from London to complete the inspection component (hopefully nothing adverse comes up...).
Perhaps with all of the delays, the crew will "time back on", and the same plane will continue to SIN.

 

[jb747]

Once we landed in GYD the total hours had exceeded the maintenance threshold so the plane couldnt depart again without sign off.

We need to know exactly what the issue was to be able to resolve that.

I don’t know whether a diversion to DXB could have addressed that (ie whether they are allowed to have an EK engineer sign off) but there may be other reasons why a DXB diversion wasn’t possible.

Having to cross Iran would be the biggest one.

There was also the issue of the crew being timed out which could also have precluded a resumption even if the engineering issue could have been resolved.

You'll never get an engineering issue fixed in a hurry when offline, unless you just happen to jag the right engineer (as I once did in Amsterdam).

 

[Franky]

Baku is a good choice for many reasons. The medical people would possibly have suggested Dubai (as their choices are only related to medical facilities), but they would also have taken into account the timing. ATC, airfield, etc, issues are left to the crew.

Whilst I'd be happy enough to fly over Iran on a standard air route, on the normal flight plan, in amongst 100 other aircraft, I'd not be doing so as a one off, on a strange routing, arranged at the last minute. Recipe for a unfriendly meeting with a SAM.

Pakistan is an emergency only country. And by that I mean the aircraft is incapable of flying anywhere else.

Visas are not a consideration. Baku is a good airport; it has the needed facilities.

Guess what, this isn't the military, and they actually plan on getting their aircraft back. This is an extremely ignorant statement. And to whom would you be giving the reality check?

There already is such an extension. Slightly more than 10%. And guess what...they would have exceeded that too, and by quite some margin.

All of which come with requirements, both before and after. There is no emergency here. Once the sick person has been taken away, it's just another flight, with all of the normal rules.

There is no second crew as such. And even if there was, they have the same start time, and would have done half of the flying to get to Baku.

Quite a bit more. I used a flow chart to work it all out.

The airborne part of the diversion cost around 2 hours....IN EACH DIRECTION. So, now you have approximately 4 hours additional flight time, plus whatever ground time you end up with. Let's be generous and call it two hours. So there's a minimum of 6 hours total that you're adding to the duty period, making a total of at least 22 hours. Way beyond anything legal.

Sums it up pretty well.

More than likely something that has come up in flight, or something that has an MEL allowing one flight. MELs can come with all sorts of conditions, but they could allow a number of flights, or a time interval. Or, just one sector, provided you’re flying to a place at which it will be repaired. If, for instance, you’d had to disconnect a generator in flight, you’d be able to depart on an MEL, but, the engine would require inspection/work before the next departure to ensure that it was a clean disconnect. It gets messy, and the permutations are endless.

Oh, and if anyone is thinking "Sunrise", it's probably worth noting that they will have zero ability to restart after any diversion. A single continuous flight will be a condition of that operation.

Baku is a good choice for many reasons. The medical people would possibly have suggested Dubai (as their choices are only related to medical facilities), but they would also have taken into account the timing. ATC, airfield, etc, issues are left to the crew.

Whilst I'd be happy enough to fly over Iran on a standard air route, on the normal flight plan, in amongst 100 other aircraft, I'd not be doing so as a one off, on a strange routing, arranged at the last minute. Recipe for a unfriendly meeting with a SAM.

Pakistan is an emergency only country. And by that I mean the aircraft is incapable of flying anywhere else.

Visas are not a consideration. Baku is a good airport; it has the needed facilities.

Guess what, this isn't the military, and they actually plan on getting their aircraft back. This is an extremely ignorant statement. And to whom would you be giving the reality check?

There already is such an extension. Slightly more than 10%. And guess what...they would have exceeded that too, and by quite some margin.

All of which come with requirements, both before and after. There is no emergency here. Once the sick person has been taken away, it's just another flight, with all of the normal rules.

There is no second crew as such. And even if there was, they have the same start time, and would have done half of the flying to get to Baku.

Quite a bit more. I used a flow chart to work it all out.

The airborne part of the diversion cost around 2 hours....IN EACH DIRECTION. So, now you have approximately 4 hours additional flight time, plus whatever ground time you end up with. Let's be generous and call it two hours. So there's a minimum of 6 hours total that you're adding to the duty period, making a total of at least 22 hours. Way beyond anything legal.

Sums it up pretty well.

More than likely something that has come up in flight, or something that has an MEL allowing one flight. MELs can come with all sorts of conditions, but they could allow a number of flights, or a time interval. Or, just one sector, provided you’re flying to a place at which it will be repaired. If, for instance, you’d had to disconnect a generator in flight, you’d be able to depart on an MEL, but, the engine would require inspection/work before the next departure to ensure that it was a clean disconnect. It gets messy, and the permutations are endless.

Oh, and if anyone is thinking "Sunrise", it's probably worth noting that they will have zero ability to restart after any diversion. A single continuous flight will be a condition of that operation.

I would like to apologise to all for my flippant comments on this matter - they were totally out of line.

 

[exLXCXFF]

Somewhat related but probably missing the point: If VH-OQB indeed departs Baku at around 1640 and arrives at 0530am SIN time, I would be interested what lounge situation the pax will find? Probably unlikely that both the QF J and QF F lounges are open - one maybe on an exceptional basis?

 

[Stanley Lambchop]

They flew in some ground crew with the engineer to assist with check in today. Good move.
There’s limited catering GYD-SIN (understandably) so they are opening the SIN J lounge to provide food on arrival (don’t know if that’s for all or just J passengers). Not sure of the status of the F lounge

 

[exLXCXFF]

Not a daily sight on FR24! Although, not being mentioned on the departures website of the airport (Heydar Aliyev International Airport)

 

[AIRwin]

Not a daily sight on FR24!

And on QF:

 

[downgraded]

Anything is possible
You can turn the A380 into an emergency department with 1 specialist emergency physician, 1 nurse, Xray machine, pathology processing machines, operating table, mechanical ventilator, all the emergency drugs, medical pumps, etc etc etc, blood bank

Thats why ambulances are not emergency departments on wheels

True, but then they shifted the paradigm from the scoop and run to mica paramedics treating and doing whatever before running, so not sure it is quite that black and white either.

 

[XWu]

I take the point that Pakistan is perceived as high risk for many, not helped by the recent conflict with India, but there are quite a few top level medical facilities in its major cities, English speaking and a few with high standards (ironically those focussed on serving expatriates population)

I don’t pretend to know Baku’s medical facilities but the Smart Travel Advice does seem to warn of potential deficiencies, suggesting possible “medical evacuation to Turkiye or Western Europe“ and while the streets of Baku may be safe for many foreigners, there remains a big question mark whether the person who is sick with heart condition is better off in Baku (despite Azerbaijan being considered part of Europe) rather than some other alternatives. (In comparison, Smart Travel advice for Pakistan didn’t mention medivac to other countries)

No doubt the medical emergency being the precipitating cause of emergency diversion, I would suggest that ultimately the pendulum of the best interests would still be more than halfway towards the sick pax but not 100% her way ie not without due consideration to other 410 persons, in the issue of where to land to deliver her to local facilities.

It would be interesting to know if that one pax still ended up having a medivac out of Baku.

 

[XWu]

I’m in Baku waiting for the resumption of QF2 later today. Couple of observations:
Medical emergency was genuine and serious. No issues with the choice of Baku being made on medical grounds.
Qantas crew did as well as the could in difficult circumstances. Cellular connectivity was difficult on the tarmac but the crew hot spotted pax from iPads to enable some limited comms.
Visa process was painful. Online only, each person had to pay (and some struggled with blocked credit cards) and took 3-4 hours to process but no obvious alternative and nothing QF could do to accelerate.
Transfers to hotels time consuming but ultimately ok. There’s no quick way to disperse 400+ passengers without long queues.
Overall not ideal and would have been difficult for elderly passengers and those with young children.

Thanks for the insight and inside details. While not surprised, I am disappointed that QF didn’t authorise the CSM to pay for the visa online or organise a team to do it from Australia (I have no doubt many credit cards will block any transaction if not previously notified about possible use in Azerbaijan, not a regular tourist destination) and thus many pax will be holding up others in the queue while they go through their collection of cards if they have any. After all QF would be not allowed to leave the pax on the plane, the tarmac or the transit part of Baku airport (if there is one)
In fact I am surprised all the pax and crew managed to get their visa sorted online in the first place!

 

[05flyer]

Some further reporting here in The Australian, including the suggestion that passengers who “approached airport staff at Heydar Aliyev International in the hope of getting an earlier flight” were told “they could use crypto or cash to secure a seat on another airline”.

Fortunately, sounds like the passenger who experienced medical is doing ok.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-passengers-crew-face-night-in-azerbaijan-following-diversion-for-medical-emergency/news-story/ef8967a3034e28e8b7e16d66419ad876

 

[RealtimeY]

Having gone through the Azerbaijan e-visa process recently, it felt very much like a data entry exercise. Maybe getting everyone to just do it online and quickly approving them was actually easier than coming up with an ad hoc way of issuing visas en masse?

 

[TheInsider]

I wonder if it will go on time

 

[Quickstatus]

paramedics treating and doing whatever before running

There is only so much that can be done on an airplane unless the airline gets rid of F and kit out that space for a full emergency suite. Even then you are limited in what can be done.

Better for people including passengers to be familiar with basic life support.

Better still for QF return itself to being the proper full service airline it purports to be before setting up an emergency department in its A380

 

[Mattg]

Oh, and if anyone is thinking "Sunrise", it's probably worth noting that they will have zero ability to restart after any diversion. A single continuous flight will be a condition of that operation.

I wonder if Qantas will be a bit "stricter" on these flights with offloading passengers who appear to have any sort of signs of illness or other possible issues upon boarding?

Premium cabins were full. I think I heard someone say 411 total passengers so not sure what that means for how full the economy cabin was.

All of the empty seats were in Economy.

 

[drron]

Unfortunately one size doesn't fit all when it comes to medical emergencies. I have had my fair share over the years. But I have been able to stop 2 flights from diverting. One is very relevant being on a QF 747 from SIN to LHR. as we were going over the Caspian sea a 90 year old in Y had a stoke. Not a very severe one and in the days before thrombolysis. So i felt there was nothing to be gained by a diversion to Baku or anywhere in Europe especially as the woman was going to the UK to see her new grandchild. so I gave up my J seat to sit in Y. I got a 747 model for my efforts,

The second was on a JAL 747 from NRT- JFK. A Japanese woman became vey ill as we overflew ORD. The Captain wanted to know if we should land there. but the woman was flying to be seen at the Sloan Kettering in NEW York. Her Japanese physician had written a letter. outlining her problems and what to do if a problem occurred. He said she was very likely to become Septicaemic , had a result of a wound culture and had arranged suitable antibiotcs if they became necessary. I remember one was Gentamycin. He had also arranged for collection tubes to go with her including for blood cultures. So my job was quite straight forward and I said on to JFK because they are waiting for her there.
The difference in airline. I had an FA to help in translation plus do some minor nursing proceedures. JAL let me know how everything tuned out. fortunately overall an excellent result. I got a hand written letter from JAL's President. A translator that was useful. As well as that in 2007 I was flying home from the Caribbean and the cricket world cup. On the JAL flight from NRT-BNE I had the same purser as that incident which was 5-6 years before. He recognised me as soon as I boarded and asked what seat I wanted. Being by myself I had already got the best seat. By itself in the middle of the forward J cabin. Heaps of leg room and no neighbours. Bliss.