QF metal classic award flights

[Kangol]

Couldn't find a thread about this, have some questions.
This is about classic reward flights on QF metal only:

1) Are surface sectors allowed without calculating the distance between cities, if so has anyone had personal experience with booking them?
2) In particular, can I book: MEL-BNE, (stop for several weeks), SYD-LAX on the same PNR?
3) Along the same line, how about BNE-MEL, (stop), LAX-SYD on the same PNR?

I'm trying to get around the 15k mile distance limit per PNR rule (14.4.2). SYD-LAX return comes at just under 15k miles, was thinking of creatively adding a domestic trip beforehand without incurring an additional points cost.

14.4 Classic Flight Rewards - Qantas and Airline Partners only booking conditions​

14.4.1 The Qantas Points required for a Classic Flight Reward Itinerary will be calculated as a one way Trip or series of one way Trips and will be the sum of the Qantas Points required for each Trip in that Itinerary.

14.4.2 Any Trip using the Qantas, Jetstar or Partner Classic Flight Reward tables (see qantas.com for the tables) must be no more than a distance of 24,135 kilometres (15,000 miles). Longer journeys must be broken into separate Trips.


Also looks like this rule is not being broken either, in both scenarios above:

14.3.5 A Classic Flight Reward Itinerary must contain no more than one departure from the city or country of first departure on that Itinerary.


Thanks!

 

[encryptededdy]

While I don't have any answers for you, just curious what the intent is here? I think even if it's on the same PNR a stop over 24h will result in it being priced as two trips, so I don't think there's any savings to be had. Trying to make the most out of a DSC PNR?

 

[ChrisMars]

Couldn't find a thread about this, have some questions.
This is about classic reward flights on QF metal only:

1) Are surface sectors allowed without calculating the distance between cities, if so has anyone had personal experience with booking them?
2) In particular, can I book: MEL-BNE, (stop for several weeks), SYD-LAX on the same PNR?
3) Along the same line, how about BNE-MEL, (stop), LAX-SYD on the same PNR?

I'm trying to get around the 15k mile distance limit per PNR rule (14.4.2). SYD-LAX return comes at just under 15k miles, was thinking of creatively adding a domestic trip beforehand without incurring an additional points cost.

14.4 Classic Flight Rewards - Qantas and Airline Partners only booking conditions​

14.4.1 The Qantas Points required for a Classic Flight Reward Itinerary will be calculated as a one way Trip or series of one way Trips and will be the sum of the Qantas Points required for each Trip in that Itinerary.

14.4.2 Any Trip using the Qantas, Jetstar or Partner Classic Flight Reward tables (see qantas.com for the tables) must be no more than a distance of 24,135 kilometres (15,000 miles). Longer journeys must be broken into separate Trips.


Also looks like this rule is not being broken either, in both scenarios above:

14.3.5 A Classic Flight Reward Itinerary must contain no more than one departure from the city or country of first departure on that Itinerary.


Thanks!

It looks like you are using the qantas or partner table zone 10 which maxes at 15k miles, and is for a single trip. Each stopover, or airline change, triggers a new trip. So not so usefull for you.

If you were to fly only oneworld, at least two Oneworld carrier other than Qantas, and meet all the other varying restrictions to qualify for an oneworld reward, then stopovers (or airline change) don t reset the miles clock, and you would be looking at zone 14k-16.8k miles which costs 100600 points in economie. The sweet spot of this table being of course the 19k-35k miles zone in premium cabine.

Anyway, you fly Qantas metal, so this table doesnt help, but it looks like you are mixing the conditions of the oneworld award table, with the conditions and table of qantas classic award. They work separatly.

 

[Kangol]

Thanks, I'm trying to add on a domestic trip/s before a LAX trip. I've booked many 420k/280k oneworld awards and made the most of them, but given there will be no hope of using two OW airlines other than QF, that's not possible.

MEL-LAX return is over the 15k mile distance so that can't be booked as one PNR - says it has to be two one ways. If I'm paying for two one ways, may as well get a bit more value if possible.

In the past I have done LAX-SYD (stop) SYD-MEL on the same PNR, QF metal both sectors, and (at the time) paid the award mileage for LAX-MEL without breaking it up into two trips as per 14.4.1. Maybe that has changed though.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks, I'm trying to add on a domestic trip/s before a LAX trip. I've booked many 420k/280k oneworld awards and made the most of them, but given there will be no hope of using two OW airlines other than QF, that's not possible.

MEL-LAX return is over the 15k mile distance so that can't be booked as one PNR - says it has to be two one ways. If I'm paying for two one ways, may as well get a bit more value if possible.

In the past I have done LAX-SYD (stop) SYD-MEL on the same PNR, QF metal both sectors, and (at the time) paid the award mileage for LAX-MEL without breaking it up into two trips as per 14.4.1. Maybe that has changed though.

The rule has been around for a long time. A stopover, unless on a one world award, will price as individual sectors. No advantage to getting it all on the one booking, unless of course QF cancels or moves on of your flights, in which case you’d have flexibility to also change the connecting sector.

 

[ChrisMars]

Thanks, I'm trying to add on a domestic trip/s before a LAX trip. I've booked many 420k/280k oneworld awards and made the most of them, but given there will be no hope of using two OW airlines other than QF, that's not possible.

MEL-LAX return is over the 15k mile distance so that can't be booked as one PNR - says it has to be two one ways. If I'm paying for two one ways, may as well get a bit more value if possible.

In the past I have done LAX-SYD (stop) SYD-MEL on the same PNR, QF metal both sectors, and (at the time) paid the award mileage for LAX-MEL without breaking it up into two trips as per 14.4.1. Maybe that has changed though.

You can make it one PNR if you pefer. The main advantage would be if it s a dsc PNR. The main inconvenience is that once you start your pnr journey, you can t cancel for a refund the remaining of the journey, nor make substantial change (change date ok, if award inventory is there). But in term of point cost optimization, no benefit.
14.4.1 state it is te sum of trip. Check the definition of trip, from memory it becomes clear a stopover of 24h breaks the trip (or same day departure for domestic).

 

[Kangol]

Maybe I've been lucky in the past in not having the award priced as the sum of two individual sectors.

Being an award redemption, I don't know if the points club SC earn for award flights applies for DSC, in any case, it's not a DSC itinerary.

Thanks to you all, better to run through the idea before booking!

 

[exceladdict]

Could you add on one AS and one AA leg in the US to make it a OW itinerary? of course then the distance back to origin will be included in calculation, so may not meet your need here, but just a thought.

 

[Kangol]

Could you add on one AS and one AA leg in the US to make it a OW itinerary? of course then the distance back to origin will be included in calculation, so may not meet your need here, but just a thought.

I totally forgot about AS joining oneworld! Thanks, will look into it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Maybe I've been lucky in the past in not having the award priced as the sum of two individual sectors.

Being an award redemption, I don't know if the points club SC earn for award flights applies for DSC, in any case, it's not a DSC itinerary.

Thanks to you all, better to run through the idea before booking!

Was this with a stopover?The system automatically prices it as two awards if you stop, has been this way for years.

 

[Kangol]

Was this with a stopover?The system automatically prices it as two awards if you stop, has been this way for years.

Yes, of several months. Every time I've used (stop) in this thread has referred to several weeks/months.

I looked at some old tickets and have had only QF/AA flights with a stop and over 15k miles in distance on the same PNR.

So maybe the QF/partner award (ie non-oneworld) rule of max 15k miles per itinerary may not necessarily apply.

 

[ChrisMars]

Yes, of several months. Every time I've used (stop) in this thread has referred to several weeks/months.

I looked at some old tickets and have had only QF/AA flights with a stop and over 15k miles in distance on the same PNR.

So maybe the QF/partner award (ie non-oneworld) rule of max 15k miles per itinerary may not necessarily apply.

I might get confused here by what you mean, but to clarify, you can book more than 15k on a single PNR. You can book a return to europe QF1/QF2 on a single pnr / ininerary that will be priced at 2x144600 in J.

So to me, your old ticket are fine. Well, would be interesting to know how many points you used, what itinery, what metal, and I guess which year (the award table have changed, just realised qantas removed the old table from it's page, I hope it's not a sign of upcoming enhancement).

 

[oz_mark]

I might get confused here by what you mean, but to clarify, you can book more than 15k on a single PNR. You can book a return to europe QF1/QF2 on a single pnr / ininerary that will be priced at 2x144600 in J.

So to me, your old ticket are fine. Well, would be interesting to know how many points you used, what itinery, what metal, and I guess which year (the award table have changed, just realised qantas removed the old table from it's page, I hope it's not a sign of upcoming enhancement).

But the way Qantas calculates it getting to Europe is one trip. Getting back from Europe is another trip. Or another way, they are calculated as a series of one way trips. It is the trip itself that cannot be more than 15K. Aust - Europe and then back is two one way trips.

 

[Kangol]

Looks like I got trip (origin to destination, stopping at destination) and PNR/itinerary mixed up, whoops.
I'd have to look up how much the points and taxes were, they are probably written on a piece of paper somewhere.
These flights were over 5 years ago.

FWIW:

'Trip' means a series of one or more consecutive Flight Segments within an Itinerary:

(a) that does not include:
(i) a Stopover; or
(ii) a Flight Segment whose arrival city is the same as the departure city of any other Flight Segment in that series (in this instance the Trip will be broken at the farthest point from the departure city for that series);
(b) not exceeding the maximum permitted miles in the Qantas, Jetstar or Partner Classic Flight Reward tables as applicable (see qantas.com for the tables); and
(c) not broken by a change to or from any airline included in the Partner Classic Flight Reward table (see qantas.com for the table).


'Itinerary' means the detailed record held by Qantas, a oneworld Alliance Airline or an Airline Partner of a journey or intended journey;


'Stopover' in relation to:

(a) an Australian domestic Itinerary, means a break of journey at an intermediate point when onward travel does not take place on the same calendar day; and
(b) for all other Itineraries, including those containing a domestic to international connecting flight, means when a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and is not scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival;

 

[ChrisMars]

But the way Qantas calculates it getting to Europe is one trip. Getting back from Europe is another trip. Or another way, they are calculated as a series of one way trips. It is the trip itself that cannot be more than 15K. Aust - Europe and then back is two one way trips.

This example was to address the claim that it's not possible to have more than 15k on awarrd (that is not an oneworld award) on a single PNR That's what I understood from OP previous comment, but maybe I misread it.

In case this helps, and to fuel the discussion, it's possible to book a trip LHR-SYD-SIN (so full QF2, and half QF1, departing on the same day than QF2 arrived) which is right below 15kmiles, in Y for 55k points (in otherwords, the SYD-SIN doesn't cost more points). However, a trip above 15k miles, such as LHR-SYD-LAX (QF12 departing same day than QF2 arrived) is calculated as 55k + 41.9k. Maybe that's the sort of itinerary OP was wondering about.

Might be able to make better conclusion once we have the discussed itinerary, and the reward tables applicable at the time of booking.