QF 12 JFK - LAX only

[rotuma1]

I have booked a Qantas classic award ticket from SYD. I arrive in the USA on EK209, then connect 20hrs later on QF12 JFK - LAX. I leave the USA on another Qantas award ticket flying EK home.
Will there be any issues boarding QF12 with no other QF flights on my award ticket?

 

[docjames]

You need a US ESTA (or Visa Wiaver) and will need to "enter" the US as usual, but otherwise, no issue.

Did you mean issue with US border control, or with Qantas? If it's a separate ticket, they (airline or border agen) may ask to see proof of onward travel (ie. that you're going to leave the US).


Take a copy in paper form, but otherwise, apart from maybe a couple of extra questions, shouldnt be an issue.

 

[rotuma1]

I rang Qantas and asked them to have another look at the award booking and rules around arriving and departing on a non Qantas flight number.
They now inform me that my suspicions were correct that I can not do this and would have been denied boarding.
As I have a flight from LAX - IAH after the now affected QF12 JFK - LAX flight not easy as puling out QF flight. They are looking into it. Better a month out than at the airport in JFK on a Friday night.

 

[dajop]

Did you mean issue with US border control, or with Qantas? If it's a separate ticket, they (airline or border agen) may ask to see proof of onward travel (ie. that you're going to leave the US)..

I think you’re missing the point of the question. This isn’t an immigration/proof of onward travel issue, it’s to do with cabotage. There are reports of QF denying boarding to those who have not entered the US on a QF flight, over concerns they will be in trouble for violating cabotage restrictions.

Having said that, unfortunately I don’t know the answer in the context of the connecting inbound EK flight.

 

[docjames]

Yes i'm aware of that, but that leaves me confused in that case how OP was able to book it?

 

[Aus ATC]

If the OP was denied boarding (due to a QF error in selling the flight in the first place) wouldn't QF have to sort out a suitable alternative?

 

[dajop]

Yes i'm aware of that, but that leaves me confused in that case how OP was able to book it?

I think the programming does not preclude the booking, and IIRC, technically the itinerary is compliant, however QF have chosen a more conservative interpretation of the rules for it to be easier to demonstrate compliance (when passenger travelling either to or from US on QF metal).

 

[harvyk]

I have booked a Qantas classic award ticket from SYD. I arrive in the USA on EK209, then connect 20hrs later on QF12 JFK - LAX. I leave the USA on another Qantas award ticket flying EK home.
Will there be any issues boarding QF12 with no other QF flights on my award ticket?

Could you explain how you'll be flying EK from LAX to home (I'm assuming home is AU)?

 

[cjd600]

DOT fines Qantas up to $125K for its intra-U.S. flights

Think they've tightened it up since this

 

[SFO777]

On the other hand, Alaska still allows an LAX stop-over (in theory up to 12 months) on a JFK-LAX-SYD or SYD-LAX-JFK award booking.

 

[cjd600]

On the other hand, Alaska still allows an LAX stop-over (in theory up to 12 months) on a JFK-LAX-SYD or SYD-LAX-JFK award booking.

So does QF. Next onward flight doesn’t have to be immediately

 

[dajop]

On the other hand, Alaska still allows an LAX stop-over (in theory up to 12 months) on a JFK-LAX-SYD or SYD-LAX-JFK award booking.

Yes that’s fine. SYD-LAX or vice versa is on QF metal. Doesn’t have to be connecting.

 

[opusman]

Could you explain how you'll be flying EK from LAX to home (I'm assuming home is AU)?

Via DXB presumably.

 

[rotuma1]

If the OP was denied boarding (due to a QF error in selling the flight in the first place) wouldn't QF have to sort out a suitable alternative?

True it maybe Qantas problem for booking me, but this is not something that I would welcome 3/4 way through an award booking, sorting out at check in at JFK. much less stressful sorting out now.

 

[rotuma1]

Could you explain how you'll be flying EK from LAX to home (I'm assuming home is AU)?

Yes as there was no award space for two people from DFW-SYD. We booked IAH-DXB-SYD

 

[Kangol]

I rang Qantas and asked them to have another look at the award booking and rules around arriving and departing on a non Qantas flight number.
They now inform me that my suspicions were correct that I can not do this and would have been denied boarding.
As I have a flight from LAX - IAH after the now affected QF12 JFK - LAX flight not easy as puling out QF flight. They are looking into it. Better a month out than at the airport in JFK on a Friday night.

If it has been ticketed, tell them it is their responsibility to get you from origin to destination (IAH).
They might be able to open up QF SYD-LAX to connect to LAX-IAH for your outbound itinerary.
Guessing your return is on another booking..

 

[Hawkeye]

I had been of the understanding that the cabotage rules technically allowed for the QF JFK-LAX (and v.v.) segment to be undertaken as long as was part of an international itinerary. So, you could depart / enter the US on a different airline. Qantas had chosen a stricter enforcement (i.e. QF departure / arrival) to minimise risk of US airlines complaining.

Either that understanding was incorrect, or the cabotage restrictions have been tightened.

 

[SFO777]

Cabotage has probably been tightened over the years. Six/seven years ago in the early wild west days of Avianca LifeMiles, YYZ-DEN and DEN-BOS was bookable in Lufthansa First via FRA... for the regular 3 class North America award rate of 35,000 miles. That amazing trick worked for the better part of a year, along with other strange LifeMiles routings.

 

[cjd600]

If it has been ticketed, tell them it is their responsibility to get you from origin to destination (IAH).
They might be able to open up QF SYD-LAX to connect to LAX-IAH for your outbound itinerary.
Guessing your return is on another booking..

They accidentally allowed me to ticket (award) connecting QF12 JFK-LAX to AA LAX-SYD.
They called me up and explained their 'error', then had 4J released on QF12 LAX-SYD and moved us to that

 

[Himeno]

I had been of the understanding that the cabotage rules technically allowed for the QF JFK-LAX (and v.v.) segment to be undertaken as long as was part of an international itinerary. So, you could depart / enter the US on a different airline. Qantas had chosen a stricter enforcement (i.e. QF departure / arrival) to minimise risk of US airlines complaining.

That is the case on the basic reading of the cabotage rules. Any non US airline flying domestic legs can only take domestic pax as part of an international itinerary.
Qantas has always chosen to tighten that as it was easier to prove they were following the rules whenever another airline (ie, UA) complained.

However, there was a case last year where QF had been selling QF codeshares from PPT and NAN connecting to/from LAX-JFK (eg QF3817>QF11). The current DOT reinterpreted the rules (they haven't changed them) to line up with the tighter process QF had been doing anyway and ignore codeshares. So DOT saw people travel as TN2>QF11, then said that Qantas wasn't following the rules in the way that Qantas had said they would.
QF didn't agree with the fine ($125k), but paid it to make the issue go away.

 

[cjd600]

However, there was a case last year where QF had been selling QF codeshares from PPT and NAN connecting to/from LAX-JFK (eg QF3817>QF11). The current DOT reinterpreted the rules (they haven't changed them) to line up with the tighter process QF had been doing anyway and ignore codeshares. So DOT saw people travel as TN2>QF11, then said that Qantas wasn't following the rules in the way that Qantas had said they would.
QF didn't agree with the fine ($125k), but paid it to make the issue go away.

refer Post#8 for link