Qatar Airways unbundling business class "R" fares

[PineappleSkip]

intended travel for business is according to one survey of travel intentions down by around 40%

And permitted outbound travel for leisure purposes is down 100%, according to the travel ban. There are less work flights, but relative to leisure flights there would be many more.

cheers skip

 

[Ric]

The $3782 one way is based on a round-trip ticket. Total cost for the return was around $7500. A one way, based on the same date, was $6682. Exactly why they are removing lounge access ($50) and seat selection on a $6682 fare, anyone's guess.

Maybe they will file new fares for 'R' class. I'd want to see them at around $2500 each way to be worthwhile.

Just receive email today from QR.
Fly to MNL via QF or CX and transit onto Qatar (if the interlining Check through can be done)?
Otherwise, take a swab at the airport then go to accredited hotel for overnight. Results will be available within 24 hrs and travel the next day?

Flight offers from Manila

Madrid Economy Class 634 USD​ Business Class 2,053 USD​ Rome Economy Class 644 USD​ Business Class 1,900 USD​

London Economy Class 694 USD​ Business Class 2,038 USD​ Stockholm Economy Class 874 USD​ Business Class 2,000 USD​

 

[hb13]

Well Qatar is going to great lengths to dissuade a lot of us from travelling with them.

Couldn't agree more. It certainly will make me stop flying them.

 

[hb13]

All Qatar has done here is remove benefits in some attempt to boost cash flow. I have looked at about 20 different fares and the cheapest fare now - Business 'Basic' is not cheaper than anything I have seen - at least in my searches. The example that ET (Executive Traveller) show is AUD $7,500 return, which is not in any way cheap or even reasonable.

For those that follow the FT blogs and even other forums such as ET forums and onemileatatime, this is not popular at all. I understand that is not a large sample size, but it is indicative of what some people feel.

QR continually go on about being the best airline and often comparing themselves to EK, however they have done exactly what EK has done with this move - which is a tacky move for an airline claiming to have a "luxury" business class product.

The issue for QR is that making this move now, in the middle of a pandemic, is a low blow - that is just my opinion, so I understand others may disagree. But, when times are tough, and people are down, and you pull something like this, that's just tacky.

People will remember this. And, I think it'll hurt QR in the medium term when, in 2 - 3 years, we slowly get back to normal. QR have the Arab blockade issue, and then there was the disgusting behaviour to those women last month (many people have sworn to never fly QR again). And then, in 12 - 18 months again, ASSUMING vaccines are successful, there will be many more options for travellers, who will most likely go with other airlines than put up with this.

 

[Flashback]

All Qatar has done here is remove benefits in some attempt to boost cash flow. I have looked at about 20 different fares and the cheapest fare now - Business 'Basic' is not cheaper than anything I have seen - at least in my searches. The example that ET (Executive Traveller) show is AUD $7,500 return, which is not in any way cheap or even reasonable.

For those that follow the FT blogs and even other forums such as ET forums and onemileatatime, this is not popular at all. I understand that is not a large sample size, but it is indicative of what some people feel.

QR continually go on about being the best airline and often comparing themselves to EK, however they have done exactly what EK has done with this move - which is a tacky move for an airline claiming to have a "luxury" business class product.

The issue for QR is that making this move now, in the middle of a pandemic, is a low blow - that is just my opinion, so I understand others may disagree. But, when times are tough, and people are down, and you pull something like this, that's just tacky.

People will remember this. And, I think it'll hurt QR in the medium term when, in 2 - 3 years, we slowly get back to normal. QR have the Arab blockade issue, and then there was the disgusting behaviour to those women last month (many people have sworn to never fly QR again). And then, in 12 - 18 months again, ASSUMING vaccines are successful, there will be many more options for travellers, who will most likely go with other airlines than put up with this.

While I agree, unfortunately most travellers are quite uninformed so it'll just be business as usual. As often happens, it's not till they take the trip that they really find out. BA's BOB (buy on board) was a great example of this.

 

[Mattg]

The press release from QR says that "Qatar Airways has launched new, simplified fare families across all travel classes in a bid to offer greater choice and flexibility to its passengers" and doesn't once mention the removal of lounge access for Business Classic tickets, although it does point out that Economy class passengers will receive an additional 5kg of baggage allowance with each of the higher fare families.

 

[RooFlyer]

The issue for QR is that making this move now, in the middle of a pandemic, is a low blow - that is just my opinion, so I understand others may disagree. But, when times are tough, and people are down, and you pull something like this, that's just tacky.

I don't disagree that its a low blow, but in doing it "in the middle of a pandemic" they are hardly alone! I mean, look at what other airlines are doing ... Qantas - closed lounges (and not all open yet), various airlines - awful J class meal services etc.

And then, in 12 - 18 months again, ASSUMING vaccines are successful, there will be many more options for travellers, who will most likely go with other airlines than put up with this.

In 12-18 months we'll all have at assess where all the various airlines have 'landed'. If taking away lounge access etc for 'R' class fares is all Qatar has done, I think they will still be out in front of most other offerings. Remember when most airlines completely stopped flying into Australia (including Qantas) , QR was one of the few that kept going throughout. Yes, fares were high, but at least they provided a flying service. And no, I'm not ignoring what happened in Doha last month, but trying to put these changes into perspective.

 

[RooFlyer]

This is a good read:

Your complete guide to Qatar Airways’ unbundled Business Lite fares

Traditional perks such as airport lounge access are now sold separately on some Qatar Airways business class tickets.

www.executivetraveller.com

From that, as a QFPlat, I could save abt $3,000 (YMMV of course) SYD-DOH-LHR return and only forego advance seat selection and some flexibility. As QR doesn't have middle seats in its long haul J, I could live without seat selection. At worst, it would mean a 'near aisle' QSuite rather than 'near window. one.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

From that, as a QFPlat, I could save abt $3,000 (YYMV of course) SYD-DOH-LHR return and only forego advance seat selection and some flexibility. As QR doesn't have middle seats in its long haul J, I could live without seat selection. At worst, it would mean a 'near aisle' QSuite rather than 'near window. one.

Not sure where the ‘savings’ are? The base level R fare is the same as it is now... no savings?

JL has fares coupled with AY or BA via Tokyo for $5500 all inclusive. Is $8000 for basic Q suites worth it? (Bearing in mind SQ F is only two thousand more.)

 

[RooFlyer]

Not sure where the ‘savings’ are? The base level R fare is the same as it is now... no savings?

I'm not buying a fare for now. I may be buying it for next year, and the example quoted gives the price differentials between QR's various fares for a time next year. Any fare, any airline for travel now may be more or less expensive for a fare flying into next year, or even tomorrow.

I haven't looked at the current fares, but I thought they were sky-high due to capacity constraints? Or have I misunderstood you?

JL has fares coupled with AY or BA via Tokyo for $5500 all inclusive. Is $8000 for basic Q suites worth it? (Bearing in mind SQ F is only two thousand more.)

Sure, I've flown all of those, (plus LH combo with QF, and all the rest) and in the past have sometimes chosen my business carrier with price important and sometimes with comfort important. As I get older, comfort (and QR) usually wins out and I sometimes pay more for it (but again, I'm often doing a OW DONE4 or 5 where the value is even better, and I choose QR wherever I can).

But here we are talking about QR's J fares.

 

[Pushka]

Well Qatar is going to great lengths to dissuade a lot of us from travelling with them.

But you were never going to anyway

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not buying a fare for now. I may be buying it for next year, and the example quoted gives the price differentials between QR's various fares for a time next year. Any fare, any airline for travel now may be more or less expensive for a fare flying into next year, or even tomorrow.

I haven't looked at the current fares, but I thought they were sky-high due to capacity constraints? Or have I misunderstood you?

QR has released worldwide fares into next year. Levels ex Europe and Asia reflect the downturn in travel and are as low as AUD2500 return from Europe to Asia in business class (return). AUD3000 return ex Asia is common.

QR’s fares ex Australia are sky high now at over $10k, but settle back to around $8000 into next year. So it seems QR is demanding a premium of $3000+ over other carriers while also downgrading to the ‘basic’ offering. QR’s standard business class offering including lounge access and seat selection is more expensive than SQ F.

If QR’s standard fare drops to around $5000-6000... I really can’t see them offering the basic fare for just $3000 return ex Australia! (I’ll be signing up if they do!)

 

[PineappleSkip]

Checked those flights again BNE-ADD early next year. $11,600 return with no seat selection or lounge access. Pass.

 

[hb13]

I don't disagree that its a low blow, but in doing it "in the middle of a pandemic" they are hardly alone! I mean, look at what other airlines are doing ... Qantas - closed lounges (and not all open yet), various airlines - awful J class meal services etc.

I think that's a false equivalence. Almost every single lounge worldwide had to close because of government rules and the fact that there was hardly a single passenger. I'm not sure how that compares to the permanent removal of benefits from your business class fare? Secondly, the cutting of service was a temporary measure due to airlines absolutely bleeding cash. A lot of airlines have already returned a lot of service back.

In 12-18 months we'll all have at assess where all the various airlines have 'landed'. If taking away lounge access etc for 'R' class fares is all Qatar has done, I think they will still be out in front of most other offerings. Remember when most airlines completely stopped flying into Australia (including Qantas) , QR was one of the few that kept going throughout. Yes, fares were high, but at least they provided a flying service. And no, I'm not ignoring what happened in Doha last month, but trying to put these changes into perspective.

I agree with you that QR have been amazing and had kept a service around when most airlines have not. I also agree with the fact that QR, particularly out of Europe had some really good J fares on arguably the best J product in the sky. But just because you are the best in class for a few months/years doesn't mean you can then do whatever you want and expect to get away with it. Do QR expect blind loyalty forever because they had a good run for a while?

Maybe QR is currently out front with this when comparing to airlines around the world now, but lounge access is a big deal to many for a variety of reasons. Seat selection maybe not as lounge access, but I would also say it's a big deal for families/couples/even just friends who are going on a long flight and paying good money to fly upfront. And as I said in my previous post, I think this will hurt QR in 2-3 years when we all have so many other options.

 

[kingaroy1942]

Qatar Airways is removing lounge access and seat selection from "R" class sale fares marketed as "Business Classic".

Presumably you'll continue to have advance seat selection and access to a lounge with Oneworld status - although in Doha that may be the inferior lounge for status pax flying Y rather than the Al Mourjan lounge.

Qatar Airways Business Class Fares With No Lounge Access (Pay $500 - $2,000 Extra)

Business-class passengers on Qatar Airways now need to pay extra for selecting a seat and accessing lounges.

loyaltylobby.com

With an award (QF FF) on QR in "J" where QR has no lounges of it's own (i.e SYD, KUL,MEL) , will passenger's have access to 1 world lounges on a complimentary basis. In LHR , CDG and DOHA will non QR lounges be available , not at all or complimentary or with a charge?

 

[Mattg]

With an award (QF FF) on QR in "J" where QR has no lounges of it's own (i.e SYD, KUL,MEL) , will passenger's have access to 1 world lounges on a complimentary basis. In LHR , CDG and DOHA will non QR lounges be available , not at all or complimentary or with a charge?

One would presume you’d still have lounge access based on your Oneworld status (if you have Sapphire or Emerald). It would be whatever lounge you would normally have access to if flying Y on QR. At most ports (except DOH etc.) this is the same lounge.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

One would presume you’d still have lounge access based on your Oneworld status (if you have Sapphire or Emerald). It would be whatever lounge you would normally have access to if flying Y on QR. At most ports (except DOH etc.) this is the same lounge.

Agree. I think there is precedent... many oneworld airlines have restrictions for their own members or tickets, but those restrictions don't apply when it comes to OW status. This includes thinks like baggage allowance, lounge access, priority check-in, etc.

Forget the above! Mattg points out below that status benefits can be excluded!

 

[Mattg]

Agree. I think there is precedent... many oneworld airlines have restrictions for their own members or tickets, but those restrictions don't apply when it comes to OW status. This includes thinks like baggage allowance, lounge access, priority check-in, etc.

Except if you fly BA and buy a hand-luggage-only fare. You don't get any baggage allowance then, even with Oneworld status.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Except if you fly BA and buy a hand-luggage-only fare. You don't get any baggage allowance then, even with Oneworld status.

Hmmm. Good point. I had thought of the AA basic fares which do come with a free bag if you have status? So... I guess it would be possible then for QR to exclude lounge access on 'R' class tickets!

 

[RooFlyer]

I think M-T’s analogy is very appropriate. QR has lopped off lounge access for one Biz class. With AA IIRC, no Biz gets lounge access. Dunno about other benefits, but in the light of AA policy, QR’s decision is pretty unremarkable, isn’t it?