Qantas three 787's due 2020 had been put on hold

[samh004]

Beyond that though, and ignoring Covid for the moment, if you’re going to send 787s everywhere, you might need a couple more.

I think there’s, what, three more to come this year? Not known if those will be pushed back but there’s be an argument that these modern and more efficient jets would be a good fit for the ‘right-sized’ Qantas.

Not A380 related, but I had heard the three 787's due this year had been put on hold, as had the 18 JQ A320 deliveries.

 

[milehighclub]

Not A380 related, but I had heard the three 787's due this year had been put on hold, as had the 18 JQ A320 deliveries.

I have also been told this and the 2 reasons for it were:
1) They don't have to pay the final payments for accepting them
2) They don't have to try and find space for them and spend money on the required maintenance for them just to sit around

 

[oz_mark]

Also changing seats, one hopes! By memory, didn’t the JQ 787s lack the overhead pilots’ rest area? (I recall some of the pseudo-J seats having a deeper recline because they were earmarked to be blocked and used by crew for resting on flights above eight hours?)

If so, then maybe any Boeing 787s which transition from JQ to QF might have to be rostered onto the shortest QF routes (unless crew bunks after retrofitted).

I'd think they'd move the assets around the group to where they are best deployed, and who knows what Jetstar's international network will look like.

They'd need a bit of spit and polish for sure, but they might slot in where some of the 330s are now. Trans-Con, and some short hops to SE Asia.

 

[moa999]

They'd need a bit of spit and polish for sure, but they might slot in where some of the 330s are now. Trans-Con, and some short hops to SE Asia.

Afaik the 787s miss the crew rests and would have some limits under the QF EBA
(Albeit probably no different to the 332s which have blocked seats on some routes)

But equally don't see any need for QF to take the aircraft if intl is the slower to recover

 

[jb747]

My recollection is that the JQ 787s were orignally ordered byGD for use by QF mainline in domestic operations. I had also heard that the cost of reconfiguring them to make them useful for QF ops was considerable, and not cost effective. That was pre Covid. Post, who knows. They might have even worse orphan status.

 

[ajw373]

Also changing seats, one hopes! By memory, didn’t the JQ 787s lack the overhead pilots’ rest area? (I recall some of the pseudo-J seats having a deeper recline because they were earmarked to be blocked and used by crew for resting on flights above eight hours?)

Remember the original plans for the 787's is the 788's to Jetstar first, then when the 789's come available that they would go to Jetstar to replace the 788's and the 788's to Qantas domestic. There were no plans to start with that had 787's flying for QF International.

 

[DavidFlynn]

Remember the original plans for the 787's is the 788's to Jetstar first, then when the 789's come available that they would go to Jetstar to replace the 788's and the 788's to Qantas domestic. There were no plans to start with that had 787's flying for QF International.

Not sure of your meaning there but Qantas always had plans to fly the 787s internationally. The group signed up for as many as 115 of 'em (Qantas Chooses Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Dec 13, 2005) - 45 firm, 20 options and 50 purchase rights, and that'd be a lot of domestic Dreamliners.

You're quite right that the plan for the red-tailed 787s was heavy on domestic, they were intended to replace the A330s, but they were also always to be aimed at Asia and the USA.

 

[ajw373]

Not sure of your meaning there but Qantas always had plans to fly the 787s internationally. The group signed up for as many as 115 of 'em (Qantas Chooses Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Dec 13, 2005) - 45 firm, 20 options and 50 purchase rights, and that'd be a lot of domestic Dreamliners.

You're quite right that the plan for the red-tailed 787s was heavy on domestic, they were intended to replace the A330s, but they were also always to be aimed at Asia and the USA.

David I am fully aware of how many Qantas signed up for and when. But it doesn't change my point that the intent was for 788's to go to Jetstar, then when the 789's became available they would replace the JQ 788's with those 788's going to Qantas domestic to replace 767's. There were no (announced) plans for any 787's to go to QFi for a very long time after that first signing. Nor was there any detail of how Qantas would use up to 115 787's either.

It wasn't until 2015, some 10 years after that first signing that Qantas changed plans with the 789's with them deciding they would go to QFi to replace 747's, with JQ keeping the 788's. This was after a massive change in the domestic market that saw less need for wide bodies (look how quick the 767's were replaced) AND a change of fortune for QFi. Secretly Qantas may well have had earlier plans for QFi, but they were not publicly announced.

My point and its relevance to the discussion is the 788's that JQ have were brought with the intent they would become Qantas (domestic) aircraft. So their fitout will be very much tailored to Qantas domestic, which is much the same as Jetstar International as opposed to being suited, without modifications for Qantas International.

 

[Himeno]

It wasn't until 2015, some 10 years after that first signing that Qantas changed plans with the 789's with them deciding they would go to QFi to replace 747's, with JQ keeping the 788's. This was after a massive change in the domestic market that saw less need for wide bodies (look how quick the 767's were replaced) AND a change of fortune for QFi. Secretly Qantas may well have had earlier plans for QFi, but they were not publicly announced.

Between the time of the original Qantas Group 787 order and when they started defering and cancelling orders after the GFC and domestic price war, Qantas was talking about 787 routes to Southern Europe (eg Athens, Rome) and North East Asia (Taipei, Seoul, Japan).
They had plans at the order with announced potential international destinations, then changed those plans with the 787 production delays, increase in Asian long haul LCCs and changes to fleet planning (767 retirement, A330 brand shifting).

 

[Isochronous]

Giving JQ newer planes than QF mainline has always felt bizarre to me.

 

[justinbrett]

Giving JQ newer planes than QF mainline has always felt bizarre to me.

And yet a pretty common occurrence across the world. low cost carriers usually have young fleets and full service carriers hang on to them until retirement.

 

[AIRwin]

2020 FY Results

It looks like Terry McCrann's CL membership is safe (even if there be a extremely slight doubt about their ongoing presence). Terry McCrann: Alan Joyce worth every cent of his $25m pay packet It's paywalled, but here are some snippets: Qantas had two huge things going for it coming into the...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Melburnian1]

Not A380 related, but I had heard the three 787's due this year had been put on hold, as had the 18 JQ A320 deliveries.

What's the attitude of manufacturers like Boeing to this given lower demand, and from Boeing's side, its need to retain airlines as customers?

Does it just say 'yes' immediately or is a hard bargain driven?

 

[samh004]

What's the attitude of manufacturers like Boeing to this given lower demand, and from Boeing's side, its need to retain airlines as customers?

Does it just say 'yes' immediately or is a hard bargain driven?

I'm hoping your question wasn't actually directed at me

I imagine to a certain extent, big carriers that would be considered too big to fail because they're essentially propped up by governments (ME3, US3, SIA) are clients you want to keep on your books going forward and looking after them through the storm will ensure they look after you after the storm. Playing hard ball is likely to drive them to your competitor who may have realised they need to be looked after.