Qantas Status match play

[maninblack]

Seeing reports on here about people getting random upgrades to Gold status. It got me thinking. What would happen if QFF pulled a similar swifty to VA and did a well marketed status match? I actually think they would decimate the VA premium market very quickly.

Would it de-value the brand. I don't thinks so, as it's already damaged and how can bringing back premium customers damage your brand?
Would current QF Golds and WP's be pissed off? Well maybe but they would not jump ship because of it.
Would VA retaliate? I don't think they have anything much in their armoury at this point.
Would it save QF's bacon? I couldn't possibly know how the numbers would stack but it probably wouldn't hurt.

Reality is VA is not a 'great' product but it has provided bit of a spunky image and a good enough alternative for many but commercial loyalty can be a very fickle thing and most VA loyalty has only been very brief at this point.

What would QF stand to lose?

 

[boylero]

being platinum VA and QF I have nothing to gain or lose personally, however I can say without any constraint that QF beats VA in most areas.

Online bookings reward or paid QF
Online check-in QF
Business Lounge QF
Aircraft - Domestically VA, International QF
Points harvesting QF
Points crediting QF
Status maintain VA
Cross promotions e.g. woolies QF

I fmy company didnt have VA ar preferred I would rarely use them regardless of status

 

[RooFlyer]

A QF status match would be a tacit admission by them that they aren't already the preferred carrier for very frequent / premium pax and I doubt they would want that 'look', irrespective of reality.

 

[serfty]

I fmy company didnt have VA ar preferred I would rarely use them regardless of status

Not surprising you have omitted one important factor given that you employment pays for most of your travel.

That is cost ... VA is generally less expensive than QF.

Both revenue and award.

 

[boylero]

Not surprising you have omitted one important factor given that you employment pays for most of your travel.

That is cost ... VA is generally less expensive than QF.

Both revenue and award.

Fair point Serfty, however $20-50 wouldnt sway me

 

[qf1020]

Fair point Serfty, however $20-50 wouldnt sway me

A small price difference sways me on domestic flights.

If QF matched my VA platinum I would consider using them more but I would then need to weigh up my retain strategy and it is easier for me to continue to retain with VA.

 

[eastwest101]

being platinum VA and QF I have nothing to gain or lose personally, however I can say without any constraint that QF beats VA in most areas.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - but surely from the chatter on some of the threads this year the following things may be pertinent:

Online bookings reward or paid QF

While both the QF and VA web sites now suck in different ways did you miss the removal of U class ASA off the QF web site and going to telephone bookings only?

Online check-in QF

Fair enough - agree there.

Business Lounge QF

Not if you are flying QF J class 25th Dec to 12th Jan then no....

Aircraft - Domestically VA, International QF

Correct VA A330 transcon vs QF A332/B767 ? All B737s pretty much the same, QF international fleet are competing and losing against the rest of the world in hard product but QF International network maybe still better than VA.

Points harvesting QF

Yes maybe easier to collect QFF points than VFF points but no point collecting them when you compare at the burn rates...

Do you like paying massive Fuel Fines when redeeming some award flight? If so stick with QFF!

Points crediting QF

Yes - QFF points crediting more reliable and a bit better than VFF but both programs have problematic partners and IT issues occasionally.

Status maintain VA

Yep - possibly easier to maintain status with VA but a bit of a moveable feast with both airlines doing limited double SC's promotions etc

Cross promotions e.g. woolies QF

Yes the tie up with Woolworths and QF works well for them.

I fmy company didnt have VA ar preferred I would rarely use them regardless of status

As others have said - on both Y and J fares VA have been far more competative in their pricing and usually/frequently undercut QF to get BFOD clients. This has the bonus of keeping QF prices down. Status and points become irrelevant if you or your business can't afford to fly....

And if you say - value Priority Boarding for instance - which airline do you think reliably does this?

YMMV - but I am still glad I am keeping a foot in both camps at the moment.

 

[boylero]

@eastwest101 In regard to better pricing etc, I booked a family member PER-MEL-BNE-PER recently through QF as they presented cheapest when taking luggage into account. They then called my family member directly and offered free QF membership. Now membership should be free anyhow I agree, but it was the gesture that impressed me more.

 

[eastwest101]

@eastwest101 In regard to better pricing etc, I booked a family member PER-MEL-BNE-PER recently through QF as they presented cheapest when taking luggage into account. They then called my family member directly and offered free QF membership. Now membership should be free anyhow I agree, but it was the gesture that impressed me more.

Yep thats true - as you say VA not always cheaper so a bit of a generalization there. That is a step in the right direction for QF - as you say a nice gesture. But I maintain that if VA didn't exist then how much would those flights have cost? And would QF go out of their way to offer free QF membership?

But back on topic - I think the PR look of QF attempting to status match VA would be an embarrasing look for QF and would seem to fly in the face of their own statements about superiority of product, incumbency/market position, devalue the status levels already acheived (and thus would upset a few loyal QFF high status members).

 

[samh004]

Fair point Serfty, however $20-50 wouldnt sway me

But isn't $20 per flight over a years worth... $1000+

 

[moa999]

I doubt there are many VA FFs that are not QF FF members.
Those that have gone to VA have probably gone for a number of reasons
- price - I still find VA to be generally cheaper, although it is a lot closer nowadays
- corporate contracts - work for an employer who has moved to VA
- routes - predominately fly routes where it is VA/JQ

Can't see many of the above coming back even if matched.

 

[serfty]

Fair point Serfty, however $20-$50 wouldnt sway me

The $20-50 depends on the actual fare - it become significant when it's a saving of 10% or more.

We can all cherry pick but in general VA are cheaper.

MEL-LAX r/t current sale (Jan/Feb): VA $1275, QF $1436

Same route one-way awards:

Class	QF Points	QF +++	VA Points	VA +++
Economy	48000 +	$457	47000 + or 59000​	$97
Premium Economy	72000 +	$457	70500 + or 82500	$97
Business	96000 +	$507	94000 + or 106000	$97

(Yes, Qantas charge an extra $50 in YQ for Business)

 

[eastwest101]

The $20-50 depends on the actual fare - it become significant when it's a saving of 10% or more.

We can all cherry pick but in general VA are cheaper.

MEL-LAX r/t current sale (Jan/Feb): VA $1275, QF $1436

And following on from Serfty comments for those whom are paying for fares and not burning points, same route Business Sale fares (same random dates Jan 2013)

VA J Sale fare Rtn MEL-LAX-MEL = $ 6549 (on VA B777)
QF J Sale Fare Rtn MEL-LAX-MEL = $ 8237 (on QF A380)

 

[medhead]

I'm struggling to imagine who they would attract with such an offer. The VA status match campaign was 2-3 years ago. They offered many complimentary status retains 1-2 years ago. We are now at the point people have either already dropped their VA status match and presumably moved back to Qantas already or they have stuck with VA. I have to ask why anyone who has decided to stick would go back to QF on a status match?

Price is a significant factor. As someone with a nominal 100 flights per year on the same route, I have a good appreciation for the numbers. Outright price is important. My price difference is $20 for 35 VA and 61 QF flights. So $1200 more for QF. On my bookings for 2014 the difference is $40, so far.

I book airlines depending on my needs on each flight. At 6am flights, which I do every week, I absolutely refuse to pay $20/$40 for a coughpy plastic bowl of cornflakes with UHT milk that I refuse to take anyway.

The other important factor is lead time for booking. The cheapest price on VA can be obtained 2 to 3 months in advance. On QF it's 4 to 6 months. VA lets me keep my money in my pocket for longer. That is very important.

 

[grubbidok]

I'm wondering what redemptions on QF AFFers are able to find as reward bookings was a large part of my decision to move more business to VA. I'm BIS QF SG and VA WP, all in Y as I work in the university sector, and now generally prefer VA as I find better earn rates for my flights as well as cheaper redemptions (not only in points but importantly those horrible taxes too).

This may be because I'm forced to travel Y for work and I don't particularly care for J travel (would rather spend my money *at* the destination, rather than to get there, or fly to more destinations) so I also do all my redemptions in Y.

I would agree that it's folly to try to compare both airlines, as they both do very different things well. FWIW a status match wouldn't get me, as the things I value QF just don't supply anymore. My colleague is the other way inclined and wouldn't go VA even if they matched his QF WP. It does mean that we are often forced to take different flights to attend the same interstate meetings though

YMMV.

 

[eastwest101]

I'm struggling to imagine who they would attract with such an offer. The VA status match campaign was 2-3 years ago. They offered many complimentary status retains 1-2 years ago. We are now at the point people have either already dropped their VA status match and presumably moved back to Qantas already or they have stuck with VA. I have to ask why anyone who has decided to stick would go back to QF on a status match?

True - they may not attract too many people but I would take the status match offer from QF (as I got matched/comped up from Velocity Red to Velocity Silver by virtue of having Qantas Silver 2-3 years ago, and then have found myself going up the tree in VFF but having difficulty maintaining/obtaining QF Gold) but then Qantas would have to also have to match VA's pricing to get my bum in their seats again as I am booked on BFOD work policy. We shouldn't forget that maybe some other people are keeping/maintaining status in both VFF and QFF to avoid the dreaded "golden handcuffs" situation.

Hence my "foot in each camp" plan until my travel pattern and work changes and/or one or the other (QF or VA) gets considerably worse/better than the other - or heaven forbid - vanishes off the face of the earth....

 

[TonyHancock]

Online bookings reward or paid QF
Online check-in QF
Business Lounge QF
Aircraft - Domestically VA, International QF
Points harvesting QF
Points crediting QF
Status maintain VA
Cross promotions e.g. woolies QF

That pretty much sums it up for me too. I'm not too bothered by a $25-30 fare difference. Whilst QF does "win" in most areas I'm keen to keep a foot in the VA camp. I have a bit of work to do in the next eight months to maintain WP with VA.....starting with a little trip to Saturday for the frequent flyer event of the year!!!

 

[JohnK]

That could be a good idea if they somehow managed to entice loyal Virgin frequent flyers. I dont think that would cheapen status. They do that already with endless double SCs offers and gifting status to those who havent travelled.

But isn't $20 per flight over a years worth... $1000+

I am not sure I could put up with that torture on too many flights. Saving is important to me but if it was the most important then I should be flying Tiger and Jetstar the most.

 

[aupirate]

True - they may not attract too many people but I would take the status match offer from QF (as I got matched/comped up from Velocity Red to Velocity Silver by virtue of having Qantas Silver 2-3 years ago, and then have found myself going up the tree in VFF but having difficulty maintaining/obtaining QF Gold) but then Qantas would have to also have to match VA's pricing to get my bum in their seats again as I am booked on BFOD work policy. We shouldn't forget that maybe some other people are keeping/maintaining status in both VFF and QFF to avoid the dreaded "golden handcuffs" situation.

Hence my "foot in each camp" plan until my travel pattern and work changes and/or one or the other (QF or VA) gets considerably worse/better than the other - or heaven forbid - vanishes off the face of the earth....

As a WP on VA and should easily qualify WP again this year I got to thinking......
Which lead me to send of a polite but cheeky email to QF Customer Service requesting a status match as I would like to spread my spend around and it would open up more options for me both for domestic and international travel, hoping to go on holiday with SWMBO to Europe next year. A CS rep got back to me a couple of days later and asked me to provide proof of my status with VA, which I duly did. A day or so later a received a call from CS again. Basically if I book 5 QF flights they will look at a comp to gold status. Not sure if this is 5 flights in their system at once or just 5 flights over a period of time, I would assume if the later it would have to be in a reasonable time span say a month or so. I think this is fair enough from QF and will follow through so I have the flexibility of both carriers. Still not sure if I will manage to maintain both but if I miss out on recomping for VA in the future I will drop back to Gold which will still give me access to lounges etc. I`ll let you know how I get on......

 

[maninblack]

Interesting to hear the responses. It's great that VA have provided genuine competition to the point that some people here are saying that they would not go back and don't think that others would either. It is bad that neither airline seems to be doing well financially but that's another matter.

It seems that QF are indeed doing some form of status matching under pressure and they really are not in a position to turn away potentially good customers at the moment. Whilst their superior attitude still seems to pervade their culture a harsh dose of reality might be having some affect. The long term prognosis for QF does not look so good. "When dinosaurs ruled the earth" comes to mind.

I still think that whilst the current leadership at QF has unwittingly done their best to trash the brand there is still just a bit of cache left that they need to take advantage of...and fast. I suspect that many elite FF'ers who ran away to VA are not overly impressed with what they are getting on the other side (the VA product is still clunky and inconsistent) but will not go back to lowly status. I think though that QF need to give people some incentive. It's a buyers market.