Qantas - Sorry But I Am Over You

[MEL_Traveller]

No it didn’t. The article does say it’s gender biased, i.e. it is chairMAN.
At least that’s my reading of it as follows
........”She’s heard the chair+manus assertion before. “It’s been around since the 1990s, because that was when the pressure for non-sexist, inclusive language first surfaced. It was one of the defence mechanisms for people who didn’t want to change the term – a fig-leaf for people to say it wasn’t a reference to ‘man’.”

I must have got confused by what you meant. I said 'chair' is gender neutral. I thought you were saying that had been debunked and that Chairman has its roots in the latin 'manus' and is therefore gedner neutral already.

 

[oz_mark]

Chairman is gender neutral, at least if we understand the origins of english.
Anyone who objections to chairman, also needs to object to person

Drop Chairperchild or Chairperoffspring into a sentence and see how you go

 

[JohnK]

You may have missed the point on this. It's not designed for you or how you interact with your family.

I'm not sure that I have missed the point.

The push is for everyone to think differently including me and my family. I see nothing wrong with the terms "husband and wife" or "mum and dad".

And yes all the points you mention could end up being true but I don't want to change because someone doesn't feel included. There's nothing wrong with "dad and dad" or "mum and mum" or even "stepdad, mum and dad". Has been accepted for a long time.

 

[OATEK]

Mr and Mrs Speedo? Great name.

Close, but no cigar!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The push is for everyone to think differently including me and my family. I see nothing wrong with the terms "husband and wife" or "mum and dad"..

There is a push for people to think differently... examples are that family violence is not ok. Words and actions which are disrespectful to women, or inhibit the equality of women are not ok. Other forms of abuse, including emotional abuse, are not ok. Racism is not ok. Discrimination is not ok. These are all good things.

But there is no push, anywhere, asking people to stop using the terms 'mum' or 'dad' or 'husband' and 'wife' in their personal relationships or family or social settings.

 

[CaptJCool]

Well it would be a hoot to be titled

Rt Hon Senator Dr Chairman Sir Capt JCool. RAFLOL

WOULD THAT make me a perchild of interest ? Or just around Sir Cool

 

[Hvr]

Well it would be a hoot to be titled

Rt Hon Senator Dr Chairman Sir Capt JCool. RAFLOL

WOULD THAT make me a perchild of interest ?

That's not a title:

This is a title
His Excellency General the Honourable Sir Peter John Cosgrove, Principal Knight and Chancellor of the Order of Australia, Military Cross, Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia.

 

[Isochronous]

There is a push for people to think differently... examples are that family violence is not ok. Words and actions which are disrespectful to women, or inhibit the equality of women are not ok. Other forms of abuse, including emotional abuse, are not ok. Racism is not ok. Discrimination is not ok. These are all good things.

But there is no push, anywhere, asking people to stop using the terms 'mum' or 'dad' or 'husband' and 'wife' in their personal relationships or family or social settings.

Actually there is - the words "mother" and "father" are being deleted from birth certificates across the Western world because biological fraud is now politically correct.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Actually there is - the words "mother" and "father" are being deleted from birth certificates across the Western world because biological fraud is now politically correct.

My post was specific to the use of the words in social or family settings (when you are talking to friends, family, or in other social occasions). I’m not aware of a push to ban the use of those words in that context?

The move to replace ‘mother’ and ‘father’ on birth certificates is to recognise same sex or other sex couples. It’s not to control the way people speak about that in their social interactions.

 

[dajop]

because biological fraud is now politically correct.

But biological fraud is hardly new?? Ooops, sorry darling your father is not actually your biological father, you see, well um, he was away and I had an affair ...

When you think about it, there are circumstances in which a biological parent (eg sperm or egg donor) may not be listed on the birth certificate.

 

[jb747]

Biological units.....

 

[Happy Trails]

'Darling' was much used in the LHR lounge this evening and nobody seemed to object.

 

[Pushka]

But biological fraud is hardly new?? Ooops, sorry darling your father is not actually your biological father, you see, well um, he was away and I had an affair ...

When you think about it, there are circumstances in which a biological parent (eg sperm or egg donor) may not be listed on the birth certificate.

Or you can have 2 perfectly legal birth certificates with different parents names on each. It’s hardly new world is it.

 

[fitzy]

So many people in this thread saying "I am fine calling people this" need to get off their high horses and realise that there are other people in the world who are not fine with it. Are you actually offended when people call you "parents"? Are you actually offended when people refer to your "partner" when they have no idea if you are married?

Good on Qantas for making more people feel comfortable using their airline. I reckon there would be a strong correlation between people who complain about this minor thing that doesn't inconvenience them in the slightest and people who make a fuss over other tiny interactions that don't really matter.

 

[OATEK]

So many people in this thread saying "I am fine calling people this" need to get off their high horses and realise that there are other people in the world who are not fine with it.

But isn't the reverse also likely to be true. I would think you are arguing for just redefining who might be offended - let it be another group.

 

[Pushka]

So many people in this thread saying "I am fine calling people this" need to get off their high horses and realise that there are other people in the world who are not fine with it. Are you actually offended when people call you "parents"? Are you actually offended when people refer to your "partner" when they have no idea if you are married?

Good on Qantas for making more people feel comfortable using their airline. I reckon there would be a strong correlation between people who complain about this minor thing that doesn't inconvenience them in the slightest and people who make a fuss over other tiny interactions that don't really matter.

Well it has to cut both ways surely. If I am offended by not being referred to as Mrs, then I’ve been made to feel uncomfortable then, haven’t I. (As previously stated this doesn’t bother me at all) I can understand why people who have been married a very long time lose the title that THEY hold dear to them.

Rather than blanket approach maybe they could ask - how may I address you? Rather than assume that someone is happy with a title that Corporate bods have decided what that needs to be.

 

[wandering_fred]

How about we stick to only scientific data?
Birth certificates with:
Biological antecedent #1
Biological antecedent #2
Verified by DNA analysis? Yes / No

I wonder what South Africa would do with the admission of humans under the age of 18?

Back to my travel wandering....

Fred

 

[harvyk]

Since we're delving into such places, there are people in my own life who don't want certain labels to be applied to them, such as "him" or "her" and would prefer to go by the term "they", however I know of others who would be very offended if you called them a "they" rather than a "him" or "her".

I know people who call their husband or wife "lover", or "partner" and would be offended if you called out their other half by any other name, and yet I know of others would be offended if you didn't call their their partner by "wife" or "husband".

In family situations two adults does not necessarily equal "mum" and "dad", and can easily be numerous other combinations, and these are all examples direct from my own life.

Despite the fact that I personally know lots of different people who all have different ways they want to be addressed, it's really simple, I start with the pronoun or the terms which I feel are appropriate based on my knowledge of the person or situation, and if I'm corrected I'll use that corrected term (without question) from that point on.

The point is that no matter what you do, you WILL call someone by the wrong pro-noun, or misinterpret a situation. Rather than attempting to come up with a list of inclusive PC terms which for some people simply feel like pandering, a better approach would be to provide sensitivity training, and use terms which invite the customer to give the correct pronoun or situation. They could also easily add in a preferred name, and the ability for people to provide additional information (such as partnership status) between people as part of the booking process / saved in a profile.

 

[JohnK]

But there is no push, anywhere, asking people to stop using the terms 'mum' or 'dad' or 'husband' and 'wife' in their personal relationships or family or social settings.

Yes there is. Here on AFF and anywhere else you care to look. @Isochronous above mentions removing "mother" and "father" from birth certificates. Why? So a few people don't feel offended?

You mention inclusiveness in the workplace is a good thing and makes people feel better. I'll tell you that it is not.

I'll give you one example. A number of people come near my desk at work and start speaking Cantonese or Tagalog or Hindi. But I feel like I am excluded as I cannot participate in the conversation. If I complain I am labelled a racist. So much for inclusiveness.

 

[dajop]

I'll give you one example. A number of people come near my desk at work and start speaking Cantonese or Tagalog or Hindi. But I feel like I am excluded as I cannot participate in the conversation. If I complain I am labelled a racist. So much for inclusiveness.

Allowing this is not an example of inclusiveness, enlightened companies do discourage workers speaking in their own languages where the language of business is recognised as English, especially if the conversation is work related.