Qantas' Schedule Change Fails MCT at SYD

[oz_mark]

It effectively leaves ADL at 6:30am Sydney time.

The carrier is really stretching the limits with QF730 - the scheduled 110 minute time for that 725 mile flight gives an average speed of 400Mph, a little more than the 310Mph of the 85 minutes for most MEL-SYD 439 mile flights.

More of a tail wind on the ADL-SYD than MEL-SYD.
SYD-ADL is a slower flight

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If I take the same ground times off QF730 I get a average air ground speeds of 460 to 490Mph

Looking at flight aware the flight seems to leave around 5 minutes early each day, around 5.55am.

Even with a couple of loops holding outside Sydney the wheels-up to down is around 1hr45, sometimes a few minutes longer.

It arrives in time about half the time!

 

[serfty]

Looking at flight aware the flight seems to leave around 5 minutes early each day, around 5.55am.

That's gate departure - i'm sure the takeoff roll does not commence before 6am.

It arrives in time about half the time!

And the T3 arrival gates tend to be near gate 15.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That's gate departure - i'm sure the tskeoff roll does not commence before 6am.
And the T3 arrival gates tend to be near gate 15.

It is gate departure. I gave flight times for wheels-up to wheels down.

But the good thing is that the flight does seem to be getting underway early if possible. Even leaving the gate five minutes early means better chances of making connections in SYD.

 

[GDSman]

I think the flight out of HBA has near exact same characteristics as flight of ADL:

• Aircraft overnights
• Environmental issues are minimal, especially given it is a takeoff not landing (e.g. can take off in worse vis than land in)
• Having been on this flight many times, on time performance is often dictated by predicted conditions in SYD, which ADL would be the same for
• A220 or 737 that will always have an airbridge at T3
• All the ground circumstances at SYD are the same for both

Could availability of spare crew if cover is needed (more likely in ADL than HBA) also be a factor?

 

[tassie6]

Could availability of spare crew if cover is needed (more likely in ADL than HBA) also be a factor?

I believe there is a crew base in Hobart, there definitely is for cabin crew, less sure about pilots

 

[GDSman]

I believe there is a crew base in Hobart, there definitely is for cabin crew, less sure about pilots

It was pilots that I wasn't sure about either...

 

[tassie6]

To close the loop on this one, changed flight to the afternoon before.

First attempt via messenger, claimed couldnt help as rewards seat and needed to call up.

Called up, wholly unhelpful and said couldnt change as it was booked as a 'through ticket' and offered to move both flights to August...

Tried messenger again a few days later and finally sorted, solved in 3 messages back and forward.

 

[tassie6]

Should have mentioned this, this was in the most recent messenger convo from QF Agent where the issue was resolved:

"The minimum connection time in Sydney for this route would be 1 hour so you would have enough time to connect onto your international flight"

But I dont see how that is the case, based on the MCT details provided by @serfty earlier on, quoted below. Either way they did change it free of charge

Minimum Connect Times:
Connecting at SYD, Incoming airline QF, Outgoing airline QF, Flight type Domestic to International

STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .30 1.00 1.15 1.00
OFFLINE .30 1.00 1.15 1.00
** OR * ARE ALL
QF-QF DI 2.00 CDS N/A - LA
QF-QF DI 1.15 ALL - FLT 8000 - 8999 TRM 1 - 1
QF-QF DI 1.00 TRM 1 - 1
QF-QF DI 2.00 FLT 5300 - 5999 - FLT 8000 - 8999 TRM 2 - 1
QF-QF DI 1.30 TRM 3 - 1 ARM - ALL
QF-QF DI 1.30 TRM 3 - 1 LDH - ALL
QF-QF DI 1.00 ALL - FLT 91 - 91 TRM 3 - 1
QF-QF DI 1.00 ALL - FLT 101 - 101 TRM 3 - 1
QF-QF DI 1.00 ALL - FLT 191 - 191 TRM 3 - 1
QF-QF DI 1.00 FLT 730 - 730 - ALL TRM 3 - 1
QF-QF DI 1.30 TRM 3 - 1
QF-QF DI 1.15 ALL - FLT 8000 - 8999 TRM 3 - **
**-QF DI 1.15 ALL - FLT 8000 - 8999 TRM 1 - 1
**-QF DI 1.00 TRM 1 - 1
**-QF DI 1.45 TRM 2 - 1
QF-** DI 2.00 FLT 5000 - 5999 - ALL TRM ** - 1
QF-** DI 1.30 TRM 2 - **
QF-** DI 1.15 TRM 3 - **
...[/CODE]

 

[serfty]

Should have mentioned this, this was in the most recent messenger convo from QF Agent where the issue was resolved:

"The minimum connection time in Sydney for this route would be 1 hour so you would have enough time to connect onto your international flight"

But I dont see how that is the case, based on the MCT details provided by @serfty earlier on, quoted below. Either way they did change it free of charge

I believe to read MCT, one first ignores the ONLINE/OFFLINE content then read down the list until a match occurs.

In the case of QF588 to QF63 the first match is this line:

QF-QF DI 1.30 TRM 3 - 1

 

[tassie6]

I believe to read MCT, one first ignores the ONLINE/OFFLINE content then read down the list until a match occurs.

In the case of QF588 to QF63 the first match is this line:

QF-QF DI 1.30 TRM 3 - 1

Yep thats how I interpreted it

 

[tassie6]

Might take this place to vent again on the HBA to JNB via SYD connection.

Still the D-I is 90mins and they have the morning HBA-SYD arriving at 0805, which means you cant book SYD-JNB on the same day (QF63 departs at 0930).

Surely this is inefficient for their planning in terms of selling connecting tickets?

Its not like 1000s of people are doing this route, but by retiming the HBA-SYD by just 5 mins would allow this itinerary to be sold and offer an attractive connection to passengers.

Instead it offers a two stop via Perth as most efficient, which is undesirable, so family will spend the night in Sydney instead.

Surely a planning failure to maximise connections/revenue?

 

[Mattg]

Might take this place to vent again on the HBA to JNB via SYD connection.

Still the D-I is 90mins and they have the morning HBA-SYD arriving at 0805, which means you cant book SYD-JNB on the same day (QF63 departs at 0930).

Surely this is inefficient for their planning in terms of selling connecting tickets?

Its not like 1000s of people are doing this route, but by retiming the HBA-SYD by just 5 mins would allow this itinerary to be sold and offer an attractive connection to passengers.

Instead it offers a two stop via Perth as most efficient, which is undesirable, so family will spend the night in Sydney instead.

Surely a planning failure to maximise connections/revenue?

If they can't move the HBA-SYD schedule forward by 5 minutes, I'm surprised Qantas didn't just change the MCT on this itinerary to 85 minutes. They shortened the MCT slightly on the ADL-SYD-JNB connection at some point to make that work.

I strongly suspect that if anyone at Qantas actually thought about this, they would do one of the two things mentioned above. Most likely, nobody in a position of power has actually thought about it or been made aware of this issue.

(P.S. If someone in Mascot is reading this, perhaps you could pass on the info )

 

[tassie6]

If they can't move the HBA-SYD schedule forward by 5 minutes, I'm surprised Qantas didn't just change the MCT on this itinerary to 85 minutes. They shorted the MCT slightly on the ADL-SYD-JNB connection at some point to make that work.

I strongly suspect that if anyone at Qantas actually thought about this, they would do one of the two things mentioned above. Most likely, nobody in a position of power has actually thought about it or been made aware of this issue.

(P.S. If someone in Mascot is reading this, perhaps you could pass on the info )

I suspect you are correct!

If those people in Mascot could sort that out before family looks to book later in the week, that would be cherry on the cake

 

[CaptJCool]

I suspect you are correct!

If those people in Mascot could sort that out before family looks to book later in the week, that would be cherry on the cake

Yes we had an MCT of 60 mins ex ADL

Apparently, the J’burg flight departs late more often than not. Well, it did the day we flew it

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

I suspect you are correct!

If those people in Mascot could sort that out before family looks to book later in the week, that would be cherry on the cake

This is not ideal. There definitely are some rather amateurish seeming quirks with QF's schedules to JNB.

You've highlighted the issue for connecting flights to make the SYD-JNB sector. For connections on the other end, this time it's the PER-JNB sector that's poorly timed, as it's impossible to make any domestic connections within RSA. A lot of people are headed to CPT and plenty others elsewhere -- seems to me like it's just handing those pax over to SAA, and forces pax in places like ADL to backtrack if flying QF when they shouldn't need to.

I wonder if you'd have luck booking the day before with the overnight in SYD and then calling in immediately to explain and ask if they can manually adjust to the next morning. If they say no, you'd be within the 24-hour cancellation window?

(This is also my annual-ish plug for wishing QF would fly to CPT a few times a week or consider a tag, but that remains a pipe dream.)

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

Apparently, the J’burg flight departs late more often than not. Well, it did the day we flew it

Indeed - I heard an A380 this morning and caught it out the window climbing out over Manly, looked at the clock, and thought, "Ah, yes, late again."

We just bit the bullet and have paid more for to book the JNB-CPT-JNB sectors on the same QF ticket next month rather than separately as I just don't trust QF63!

 

[tassie6]

Indeed - I heard an A380 this morning and caught it out the window climbing out over Manly, looked at the clock, and thought, "Ah, yes, late again."

We just bit the bullet and have paid more for to book the JNB-CPT-JNB sectors on the same QF ticket next month rather than separately as I just don't trust QF63!

Family is heading to Durban post landing, but using points to book, which unfortunately in SA means no partner airlines available to book with points and no protected itinerary! So generally stay the night near JNB..

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

Family is heading to Durban post landing, but using points to book, which unfortunately in SA means no partner airlines available to book with points and no protected itinerary! So generally stay the night near JNB..

If they have Velocity points, it’s often easy to get SAA reward flights (though not protected on the same ticket of course). You do need to call in for them but we’ve had good luck to CPT, Durban and PE.