Qantas SC earn error?

MarkIrving

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Hi, this is my first post so apologies if my query has been dealt with in another thread.

I usually travel Perth to Northern Tassie 3-4 times per year and typically wait for the business sale seats to go Business from PER to MEL. I have also collected 80 SC for this run which is what I expected. With the advent of COVID we have just made a quick trip on a PER to HBA direct flight. There were no specials to be had (I checked every date for the next year) and the standard price of $2400 per sector was the only thing on offer.

I had assumed that this ‘full business’ fare would attract the highest earn rate for flights > 1500 miles (95 SC) however, the standard 80 SC were again recorded. I then checked my fare class and it was ‘D’ for discount business which is why the 80 SC was awarded. However, I queried this with qantas FF (via email) as I could see it was impossible for anyone to ever get the maximum SC and FF points if their ‘standard’ (or maximum) pricing was categorised as fare type D - discount.

I have had 3 responses from 3 difference people so far from qantas and all they do is inform me I am fare class D (which I told them) and thus the points and SC earn rate was correct. They never answer the actual question of how I can earn the ‘Flexible Business’ rate and get 95 SC. In my view this is misleading conduct as they advertise an earn rate that you can never achieve.

If you look at the domestic points earning table there is no discount business only Business (80 SC) and Flexible Business (95 SC). My ‘discounted’ fares have always mapped to Business (80 SC) so the clear inference is that a non discounted fare would be the ‘Flexible Business’ category. Am I wrong here??? Thanks for any insights.
 

mviy

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They sell the cheaper fare classes first. Were there flights with higher loadings with a higher price and more SCs showing?
 

MarkIrving

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They sell the cheaper fare classes first. Were there flights with higher loadings with a higher price and more SCs showing?
No - when I search for prices across the next year they were all the same - $2,400 one way. They did run a special on this route about 2 weeks prior to my booking but I was not able to commit to a specific travel date at that point so I missed out.
 

serfty

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@MarkIrving One way to check the fare class is to make a 'dummy' booking going all the way through to the payment page, ensuring your Frequent Flyer number is correctly input.

But don't pay - wait a few minutes and the booking should show up under "Your Bookings" - from there you can check the underlying booking class.

To get J class, you may need to call Qantas to book or perhaps use a travel agent (there are some good ones who are members of AFF).
 

oz_mark

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Nothing guarantees that all fare classes will be available on all routes. There's plenty of flights that don't even offer Business in any code.
 

MarkIrving

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One way to check the fare class is to make a booking and go all the way through to the payment page, ensuring your Frequent Flyer number is correctly input.

But don't pay - wait a few minutes and the booking will show up under "your Bookings" - from there you can check the underlying booking class.
Thanks - I will check that in future. I normally don't worry as I wait for specials and expect the discounted SC and points - but having paid the full value here I was expecting the full SC for this long domestic flight.
 

MarkIrving

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Nothing guarantees that all fare classes will be available on all routes. There's plenty of flights that don't even offer Business in any code.
You are correct but the circumstance here is that Qantas display this as 'Business' fare. The fare is the standard fare (not a discounted fare that they have previously offered on the route.) If you look at the T&C's connected to it (when booking) it is fully flexible. In my view it is a Flexible Business fare per their earning tables and it should not be allocated to fare type D in the web booking system. Otherwise, customers are being promised earn rates (SC and FF points) that a user (on this route) can never achieve. If a retail operation behaved like this the ACCC would be all over it.
 

serfty

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Otherwise, customers are being promised earn rates (SC and FF points) that a user (on this route) can never achieve. If a retail operation behaved like this the ACCC would be all over it.
Qantas have long worked on the Mushroom Principle - Keep 'em in the Dark and feed them ..... fertilizer ... :(
 

AustraliaPoochie

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Only time I have ever gotten 85 QFF SC. and not paying exorbitantly, was on my flight AKL - BNE.
Other times I have flown QF subclass of domestic J class, its always been 40 QFF SC.
Didn't keep track of the class of fare on my paper BP, flight was one Dec, I think was 2019/2020.
So it might be only on long(er) international flights/TT, they sell J at the C class.
Never had any actual true/real J class fares in my 24 years flying QF.
More expensive, does not (in QF's eyes) in this instance mean flexJ, they class it as discJ.
 
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muppet

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It is interesting that the Qantas booking page doesn’t show the points and status credits earned for the direct flight. The indirect flights do show the earn up front.
677F428E-6905-4341-B11B-48931D6A2C15.jpeg
Here are all the available business fares, only the red ones earn flex status credits. However, you cannot know that from Qantas’s booking page.

9964AD48-DCCD-4832-A95B-61CF55D2AEFC.jpeg
 

sudoer

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AustraliaPoochie

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Even if it did show, if you have a look under fares, for any QF Aust domestic booking, in the booking section, you will not see 85 QFF SC earn, its always 80 max, but if you try a TT booking for J, you will see 85 QFF SC earn.
 

sudoer

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Even if it did show, if you have a look under fares, for any QF Aust domestic booking, in the booking section, you will not see 85 QFF SC earn, its always 80 max,

Let's try to not spread misinformation hey? Search PER-SYD 15 Apr for 1 adult.

1618056894381.png

The correct SC are advertised when only Flex J booking classes (J/C) are available to book.

1618057045326.png

Not sure where you got 85 SC from by the way, it's 95 SC on transcon routes.

1618057129285.png
 
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RichardMEL

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a TA could potentially sell a full C or J fare, though honestly one would wonder why - the cost would be ridiculous for the 19 extra SC. QF is simply offering the lowest available on their website. I am sure if you called QF and asked to buy C or J they would happily sell you that as well as a TA.
 

RichardMEL

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Only time I have ever gotten 85 QFF SC. and not paying exorbitantly, was on my flight AKL - BNE.
Other times I have flown QF subclass of domestic J class, its always been 40 QFF SC.
Didn't keep track of the class of fare on my paper BP, flight was one Dec, I think was 2019/2020.
So it might be only on long(er) international flights/TT, they sell J at the C class.
Never had any actual true/real J class fares in my 24 years flying QF.
More expensive, does not (in QF's eyes) in this instance mean flexJ, they class it as discJ.
Poochie.. how does this assist in any way whatsoever? musing on one flight you earned 85 SC's on is hardly relevant, and you're actually musing things that aren't correct. as posted in the thread there are fares for every fare type and booking class, such as J and C in all markets where the cabins are offered from the shortest domestic to the longest haul in F (and I mean full F). Just because you have never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and you don't seem to have a full idea of how legacy airline pricing works.

For example MEL-ADL which you fly a bit iirc.. there are filed DBQW (762AUD) CBQW (939.88) and JBQW (1347.88). Those excude taxes. As with the full YOW fare(881.34) you do not often see those for actual sale unless very full flights (say Port Adelaide makes it to the Grand Final) but those fares are there and can be sold.

It's got nothing to do with international or domestic or T.T. It's fares filed in a particular market by an airline.

I do agree though that QF's "simpler but not fairer" design does not make it CLEAR up front what fare is what and other airlines are far better at this. However it doesn't mean the fares do not exist or are not sold.
 

RichardMEL

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By the way, on a related note I thought I'd write about the case of travelling/booking in a lower cabin on a higher fare - for example when that cabin is not available/provided - such as a "First" fare involving sectors where F is not provided, such as MEL-SYD-CHC. Say one books this connection onto the EK codeshare (let's just assume this is a thing as it used to be :) ) and one buys a "First" fare that books into A or possibly F on the trans-tasman sector. Because there is no F cabin on the domestic sector one is seated in Business, and the booking class will often book into J. That doesn't mean that is a full J fare for that sector though, the component is part of the F or A fare for the MEL-CHC market. The way the pricing and fare rules often work is to provide transportation in the lower cabin at the highest available class for the purposes of availability so one would earn at Full Business rates for that sector. Same as domestic tags on regional routes with no Business cabin often book into Y. This is not always the case and can vary on specific fare rules, specially for sale premium fares in specific markets.

Back in the day (eg 20ish years ago) there used to be the most excellent situation where Star Alliance offered RTW fares with no limit to flight coupons that could be used (the limit was on total miles a.k.a MPM of the ticket) and the economy fares used to book into the B (virtually full Y bucket) for some reason. Thus one could book onto just about any flight due to the B class booking (which also earned at full Y levels for just about all mileage earning and were also super easy to upgrade) and it was possible to construct lots of sectors, specially within the US or europe. both to get around and for status runs. At some point in the early 2000's they wised up to this and put a coupon limit on to be 16 IIRC and lowered the booking class to a lower one, Q I think which made far more sense for the RTW product. Those were the days though. :)

I am sure this has confused things a bit but since the topic is about earning at fuller business rates it can get confusing when one takes into account things like connecting fares, international and higher cabin fares. Confused much? You're welcome :)
 

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