Qantas rolls out Classic Plus Flight Rewards

[RealtimeY]

For what is essentially a rebranding of points plus pay, it's amazing how much attention this got before anything was even announced.

This change is mostly neutral for people who are seeking value from points, and positive for people with points to blow (but won't satisfy all of them, of course). In terms of program devaluations, it really could have been a lot worse.

 

[RooFlyer]

I also don't understand all the negativity. Is anyone actually worse off today than they were yesterday?

I think a lot of the negativity comes from observing that Qantas hardly ever brings forward something which is a net benefit for the punters.# A lot of us will remember the "simpler and fairer" carp and are now waiting for the other shoe to drop. "Enhancement" hasn't developed as a term of derision for nothing.

So look beyond the PR hype and shiny new toy being waved around and see what the situation is in 3-6-12 months. Then ask is anyone actually worse off today than [time period] ago?

# Points Club has been said to be one, but as that brings a bunch more people (usual non-flyers) to the points redeeming table (more competition), I consider it a negative.

 

[appaz]

Oh wow, probably the worst points one can accumulate in Australia (QFF) are now even more worthless. Spend them and move on to greener pastures

 

[dandandan]

Many more commenting should be thinking this out a bit more. Those that spend points on gift cards or goods, plus now CR+ are going to provide less competition for CR.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

So, no new planes, for now, on the int runs, but they will put 20, is that 200,000 wow, 20m extra seats (worst than I thought), to be made available for the taking.
Indeed, its "bad".
If I am willing to pay for my J seat, with so many classic plus rewards seats on offer, this means less available for buying as a rev tix.

 

[CaptJCool]

So, no new planes, for now, on the int runs, but they will put 20, is that 200,000 seats to be made available for the taking.
Indeed, its "bad".
If I am willing to pay for my J seat, with so many classic plus rewards seats on offer, this means less available for buying as a rev tix.

did you see the J seat prices to London prior to 1 July?

EK is the airline with the J under $5,000 one way (eh when you can QR/QY Turkish return for sub-$6,000 RETURN)
QF is plus $7,000 one way SO that's kinda a stinker of points spend...

 

[1022]

I’m in the “neutral” reaction camp on this for now.

CR+ isn’t something I see myself taking advantage of. Like AFF the article said, if a CR+ fare looks like good value, the cash fare is probably worth considering anyway and pocketing the points and SCs. But for a family flying to DPS or NAN in Y for their once a year trip, who happened to land a whole bunch of points via insurance policy purchases and a credit card signup or two, this probably appears like good value. Similarly when domestic CR+ comes online, plenty of NB punters may well see this as a positive.

Those of us who have been in the points game for years and still look for OWAs and other unicorns can simply keep searching- until QF enhances regular CRs.

I mean with so many cynics among us, I imagine most CR redemptions are being made on partner airlines* anyway seeing as QF is apparently so on the nose…right?

*gross assumption that QF can actually manage to ticket said partner flights or that their outsourced call centres can resolve the inevitable f-ups.

 

[Daver6]

Many more commenting should be thinking this out a bit more. Those that spend points on gift cards or goods, plus now CR+ are going to provide less competition for CR.

My concern is that this is just the precursor to QF getting rid of CR altogether.

Let's just say that people don't trust QF and with good reason based on past behaviour.

 

[JennyMG]

Well I think when/if Q finds that many FF-ers are not so interested in the big points of CR+ (unless they've got plenty to blow) and still want the CRs I reckon they'll think about phasing them out, or blending them. That worries me, - when a person is not a very frequent traveller, and has worked hard for the points, it stinks when (the way young people feel about deposits for homes I expect) we keep seeing the goal posts move, but you never know, it might mean mega points holders don't care what they spend them on and will just take the easiest, leaving more for the rest of us. I wonder what the chances are CRs will stay as they are?

 

[Capricornus]

So does Points + Pay even have any relevance anymore? I assume P+P will exist only where CR/CR+ seats have been exhausted on the route? I think it's mental that QF can have a variable value of what a "QFF point" is worth. Imagine if currencies operated like that.

Be careful what you wish for. You want fluctuating value from your points for as long as possible.

 

[aweingar]

I can see the current rare availability of CR upgrade diminishing to zero.
Right now if you buy a Y ticket and request a CR upgrade, you're unlikely to get it, even as WP, due to the lack of availability in premium cabins. With the increased competition from CR+ vacant premium seats will be a thing of the past along with any possibility of CR upgrade.

 

[clifford]

Well, if this is the full extent of Qantas' huge enhancements to the FF program, I think it was somewhat of a damp squib.

Those who would have otherwise used their points to obtain toasters and kettles can rejoice, whilst the rest of us can just watch the CR stock drip away.

A huge yawn, but nothing positive for the savvy frequent flyer IMO.

And I expect that this is just the first salvo in the campaign to water down the benefits (Just wait and watch).

 

[TheRealTMA]

Well, if this is the full extent of Qantas' huge enhancements to the FF program, I think it was somewhat of a damp squib.

Those who would have otherwise used their points to obtain toasters and kettles can rejoice, whilst the rest of us can just watch the CR stock drip away.

A huge yawn, but nothing positive for the savvy frequent flyer IMO.

And I expect that this is just the first salvo in the campaign to water down the benefits (Just wait and watch).

IMHO Seems just like a profit grab from QF that has few advantages to QF FFs.

 

[Pushka]

I just can't see many utlising it for overseas travel. You'd have enough points for one way, but not for return. So stuck with paying the inflated one way cost. How many people have around 500,000 points to burn?

 

[Kangol]

I await the day an F sale comes up, with classic plus being cheaper than classic

 

[RichardMEL]

I await the day an F sale comes up, with classic plus being cheaper than classic

You'll be waiting til QF finally gets rid of an attempt at a F oroduct...

 

[MooTime]

I thought VA were kings of the nothing media announcements.
What a bong event this was.

Just a copycat dynamic pricing scheme, blink n you'll miss it n never even know or use this yet another Qantas enhancement.

The absolute points whales & genuine huge earners will love it as basically guaranteed J tix anywhere anytime.

The remaining 14,999,000 million QFF members it's a non event.

NEXT.....

 

[vaccav]

The impact of this announcement depends a bit on which type of Frequent Flyer you are:

Category 1: You don’t have all that many points, you don’t fly that much but you have built up some points in your account. You have saved up points for years, you don’t really know the value of them but you’d like to get a free flight at some point.
Outcome: Frequent flyers in this category have now got another way to use points.

Category 2: You know the value of points, you probably fly a lot (WP or P1) and you get good value by redeeming points for business class (eg to Europe). All these flyers (me included) are really unhappy that we can’t get Classic Rewards seats. Even with platinum and P1 status we still can’t get those seats for around 285,000 points return to London (and we called when they were available for P1's to request).

Sure, I can pay 1.4m or so points per seat but that’s 4x or 5x the price.

Flyers in this category get very little out of this announcement. The only benefit is that we can now pay 2x the classic reward price instead of 4x (eg now pay 600,000 points for business class return to London). Not many flyers are going to pay twice the price. I’m still very unhappy with the terrible availability of classic award FF seats.

The outcome of all this is that Qantas has created more seats for more people to use. This works for people in the first category, but that’s because they don’t know they are being ripped off.

Qantas hasn’t helped its most frequent flyers at all. Those that know the value of points are still unhappy. There’s not more classic rewards seats and they can’t use their points very easily. Alan Joyce used to offer to rip me off by charging 4x or 5x. Now Vanessa Hudson is only going to charge 2x.

My personal view is that Qantas has done nothing for its most frequent flyers (gold, platinum and platinum one). We still can’t get the seats we want.

This is a “fail” by Vanessa Hudson. The review was announced, the new scheme foreshadowed and deliberately leaked out in bits. The big day came. Except there is no big news or benefit to the most frequent flyers. It only gives a benefit to those she will rip off. In about 4 months from now, we’ll still be complaining that we can’t get classic reward seats and the only way to use our points is to get ripped off by Vanessa Hudson.

My household has 3+ million points and we still can’t use them unless we pay twice the price (v. classic rewards).

The SMH and AFR articles should say "The 'most frequent' flyers believe this is a fail by Vanessa Hudson"

 

[Danger]

The Sydney Morning Herald article quotes Hudson as saying classic plus "will add four times the amount of access to seats than Classic Rewards with more choice and more destinations". There’s also this from the email to members: “It [classic plus] also means greater availability, so you can fly to more places, more often, including during peak travel periods” (my emphasis). Aren’t both of these statements an admission that Qantas doesn’t release award seats on some routes at all? Otherwise, how else can “more” be quantified?

The email sent also included the footnote, “*Accurate as at 4 April 2024.”. But that’s the only asterisk in the email, so it’s not clear what exactly is accurate as at 4 April.

Genuinely surprised that no other changes/'enhancements' have been bundled in with this change. Or am I just being cynical...

Agreed. If this is the extent of the changes and Qantas is not deceiving us that the availability of classic seats won’t be reduced, I’m breathing a sigh of relief. History has taught us that’s unlikely to be the case, but I’m nonetheless trying to remain optimistic at this point.

Nothing has changed in regards to that

I think there is a change, though. There’s now more competition in those buckets, by virtue of the fact there are more options to get one of those A, I, D, T, N or Q seats. Whereas previously it was pay cash or request a seat, it’s now pay cash, request a seat or pay an inflated price in points. It’s like having 100 tickets available to a concert. Those tickets could once only be purchased by people over 45. Now, people under 45 can purchase them, too. But there’s still only 100 tickets available.

Just saw ....

3 July SYD-JFK J CR 144,600pts +$392
vs.
5 July SYD-JFK J CR+ 649,700pts + $702

That's absolutely flippin' ridonculous in anyones language.

The stupid points cost aside, it’s interesting that the taxes and surcharges are higher on the rewards plus option. This means that while you might be getting one cent per point on the points component, the overall out of pocket is worse.

On the same cynical note, and considering also the mix between domestic and international. Is the 5 million number the count of what is redeemed, or what is made available? The number of available could be vastly increased if every unsold domestic economy seat was made available as X class 31 minutes before departure. Lots and lots of available reward seats to report, but not many of them getting redeemed for some reason (another reason to ditch CR - so many don't get used, no-one wants them )

So, just to be clear, you’re expecting hopeful passengers with bags packed and plans sorted to be crowding check-in halls with the hope of snatching up a seat with 60 seconds to go before bag drop closes?

This Point Hacks article says, “Classic Plus redemptions are also subject to the same fees and taxes as Classic Flight Rewards” but then includes a table saying the “fees and taxes” are “payable on top”, which strikes me as contradictory. The investor presentation shows the taxes and surcharges are higher on classic plus than they are on classic.

This Point Hacks article says, “If a commercial sale fare ends up being cheaper in points with Classic Plus than a standard reward seat, the Classic Plus will show up instead.” This strikes me as potentially problematic for those who aren’t on the ball, given changes to classic plus require payment in cash (in addition to the 5K fee). The article goes on to say, “On the rare occasion you want the standard Classic Reward fare rather than a cheaper Classic Plus fare (perhaps to combine with another similar fare), you may need to call Qantas to book it.” That’s a pain in the bum, considering the incompetent overseas call centres. What’s the change you’ll end up with a classic plus in this situation?

 

[aikman]

I just booked one. 30,600 points to Wellington. My original plan was to book a classic reward but classic plus is currently cheaper. I am points club so SC earn is close enough to a cash fare. Classic plus is refundable but cash fare is not. Economy is fine for NZ.

I don't have a business and I am certainly not a points whale. I have never redeemed for gift cards or toasters. Just thought I'd share.

Oh and as WP they wanted $35 for row 4. Row 5 is free.