Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[ChrisMars]

An arrivals lounge would be a better option.

There used to be the AA lounge available to QF1 but they abandoned that arrangement. Has it been revealed whether they will reinstate something for this flight?

The reason the access was removed was because, and I quote from memory, "we listen to our passengers".

 

[justinbrett]

That would mean an extra contingent in LHR at any time?
It could be fractionally provided - crew layover 24hrs more than required for instance?

I'm not up with QF rostering but I'd be surprised if they don't already have some fat in crew layovers.

What if a pilot calls in sick?

Even if it's burning a future flight, like perhaps QF2 loses half of its crew to do a rescue, then QF2 proceeds with 2 pilots to a mid point where a replacement crew from Australia has been pre-positioned.

As I said, all very complex but definitely more options having a common type.

 

[AuSammy]

I'm not up with QF rostering but I'd be surprised if they don't already have some fat in crew layovers.

What if a pilot calls in sick?

Even if it's burning a future flight, like perhaps QF2 loses half of its crew to do a rescue, then QF2 proceeds with 2 pilots to a mid point where a replacement crew from Australia has been pre-positioned.

As I said, all very complex but definitely more options having a common type.

I would think definitely more efficient and effective to have only one type in and out of LHR. Removing current requirement of having to maintain layover crew for Airbus (A380) and Boeing (B789) with no interchangeability should improve recoverability.

 

[moa999]

Equally though if you aren't flying A380s to LHR that's about 3 lines that you need to find other profitable routes for, something QF has generally struggled with.

Or retire them and give up market share.

 

[mviy]

Equally though if you aren't flying A380s to LHR that's about 3 lines that you need to find other profitable routes for, something QF has generally struggled with.

Or retire them and give up market share.

If QF keeps one stop flights to LHR in the medium to long term, I suspect they may use the A350 without the extra fuel tank and a higher number of seats so they could still end up with higher capacity to LHR than they have now. Or maybe move the 787 onto the one stop route after upgrading PER-LHR to Sunrise aircraft.

 

[Melburnian1]

If QF keeps one stop flights to LHR in the medium to long term, I suspect they may use the A350 without the extra fuel tank and a higher number of seats so they could still end up with higher capacity to LHR than they have now. Or maybe move the 787 onto the one stop route after upgrading PER-LHR to Sunrise aircraft.

Didn't QFi at one stage years ago have daily B747 flights via each of BKK, HKG and somewhere else to/from London?

It's a shadow of its former self, even with the eventual PS offering.

 

[dajop]

Didn't QFi at one stage years ago have daily B747 flights via each of BKK, HKG and somewhere else to/from London?

It's a shadow of its former self, even with the eventual PS offering.

About 18-20 years ago, QF used to have 4 flights to LHR. QF1 from SYD via BKK, QF 9 from MEL via SIN, (both dawn arrivals) and QF 29 from MEL via HKG and QF 31 from SYD via SIN (both lunch time arrivals IIRC). They used to also run QF5 to FRA via SIN, at the same time, but don't think they ever had 4xLHR running concurrently with CDG or FCO services.

It looked like they were going to get back to 4 - now it seems 3 is more likely, but who knows they might add a MEL service, or the might go double daily from SYD if sunrise works out for them.

I wouldn't say its a shadow of its former self. There are a range of routes they have added or they have added frequency to (these are those that don't compete directly with the ME3). Examples are the rise of DFW, the restoration of CDG after 20 years (+ seasonal FCO), YVR, addition of frequencies to SIN, MEL-CGK, BNE-MNL, PER-JNB are the ones that come to mind.

 

[elanshin]

About 18-20 years ago, QF used to have 4 flights to LHR. QF1 from SYD via BKK, QF 9 from MEL via SIN, (both dawn arrivals) and QF 29 from MEL via HKG and QF 31 from SYD via SIN (both lunch time arrivals IIRC). They used to also run QF5 to FRA via SIN, at the same time, but don't think they ever had 4xLHR running concurrently with CDG or FCO services.

It looked like they were going to get back to 4 - now it seems 3 is more likely, but who knows they might add a MEL service, or the might go double daily from SYD if sunrise works out for them.

I wouldn't say its a shadow of its former self. There are a range of routes they have added or they have added frequency to (these are those that don't compete directly with the ME3). Examples are the rise of DFW, the restoration of CDG after 20 years (+ seasonal FCO), YVR, addition of frequencies to SIN, MEL-CGK, BNE-MNL, PER-JNB are the ones that come to mind.

I'd also imagine their current aircraft crunch doesn't help them in any aspect - they probably want to run more flights all over just without the aircraft to do so.

 

[Melburnian1]

About 18-20 years ago, QF used to have 4 flights to LHR. QF1 from SYD via BKK, QF 9 from MEL via SIN, (both dawn arrivals) and QF 29 from MEL via HKG and QF 31 from SYD via SIN (both lunch time arrivals IIRC). They used to also run QF5 to FRA via SIN, at the same time, but don't think they ever had 4xLHR running concurrently with CDG or FCO services.

It looked like they were going to get back to 4 - now it seems 3 is more likely, but who knows they might add a MEL service, or the might go double daily from SYD if sunrise works out for them.

I wouldn't say its a shadow of its former self.

I was specifically comparing flights to the UK.

Given the huge population growth in Australia (and elsewhere) compared to c.20 years ago, and the continuing annual growth of tourism save for the COVID period, QFi's passenger-carrying capacity on the Australia-UK route(s) hasn't matched these factors.

 

[justinbrett]

I was specifically comparing flights to the UK.

Given the huge population growth in Australia (and elsewhere) compared to c.20 years ago, and the continuing annual growth of tourism save for the COVID period, QFi's passenger-carrying capacity on the Australia-UK route(s) hasn't matched these factors.

Let me fill you in. There's these two countries - UAE and Qatar. They've developed a keen interest in aviation. Qantas changed their JV from BA to EK. Almost all of the European carriers stopped serving Australia - BA is the only one left with a single route.

However, things are changing again, with Qantas launching PS, TK announcing direct flights, BA adding a second route to MEL, and AY launching services.

 

[dajop]

I was specifically comparing flights to the UK.

Given the huge population growth in Australia (and elsewhere) compared to c.20 years ago, and the continuing annual growth of tourism save for the COVID period, QFi's passenger-carrying capacity on the Australia-UK route(s) hasn't matched these factors.

But that's just as much a product of intense competition as anything. If my count is correct there are 18 other carriers who can take you via Asia (inc. ME) to the UK with a single stop, And another 3 (soon to be 4) that offer a single transfer to UK (but involve an additional technical stop). So can fully understand why QF moves it resources to markets with less competition.

But that's what Sunrise is aiming to correct, like it did with PER-LHR, offering a differentiated product to the market that no one else is offering.

 

[chitown_boy]

SingAir flights to NYC already 18-19 hours and 28 flights a week for how long now? Haven’t seen anything exceptional in the media.

Qantas flight PER-LHR and DFW-MEL 17-19 hours and daily nonstop (until the war) for how now? Haven’t seen anything exceptional in the media.

Not sure why PS is generating so much OMG type commentary

But SIA is mainly J, as well as PY including solo PY seats (no Y)

 

[jb747]

I thought ages ago @jb747 said it was 22 (prior to PS), but perhaps he can kindly remind us.

The rules that I worked under topped out at 20 hours. But that was from an extension by the crew, not something the company planned. Both the 747 and 380 had good bunks, but you felt like death warmed over at the end of that sort of duty period.

You raise a very good point about 'proper' sleep. I find it harder to sleep in J on an aircraft than in any class on almost all trains. Pilots on these super lengthy flights may be sometimes trying to sleep when their body clock says otherwise.

Some people sleep. I suspect that most don't.

And A380’s diverting to Balu are not costly and disruptive?

If I recall correctly, there was actually something wrong with the aircraft that precluded them continuing.

How is that different to QF1 or 9 diverting? If anything PS makes it easier because there will be two A350-1000ULRs operating to LHR daily. Right now it's one of each type.

1 and 9 normally had a fair bit of time available. Enough to handle any straightforward diversion.

@Quickstatus, are you implying if there's a diversion that pilots will have to spend 48 to 72 hours at the 'intermediate' enforced hotel stay?

Or will they be able to 'merely' spend 24 hours on land before the journey is resumed with them?

It will depend upon how long the flight components are. If they've done most of the journey, then it may be 24 plus hours. But two halves, perhaps 12-18.

I'm not up with QF rostering but I'd be surprised if they don't already have some fat in crew layovers.

Very little. Bear in mind too, that it's not just the individual flight from Sydney to UK and return that has to be accounted for. Each pilot will have been flying his own roster, and the hours he has accumulated on that will affect the ability of rostering to make any changes. For instance if a pilot is approaching the 100 hour in 30 days limit, he might actually need to have the 3 day break, even though nothing in that particular flight is limiting. The rostering computer used to (and I doubt that it's changed) play extremely close to all of the limits.

What if a pilot calls in sick?

Desperate phone calls to find someone who isn't....

Even if it's burning a future flight, like perhaps QF2 loses half of its crew to do a rescue, then QF2 proceeds with 2 pilots to a mid point where a replacement crew from Australia has been pre-positioned.

Yes, that sort of thing happens quite regularly. And it's why some diversions end up having a second diversion.

 

[dajop]

If I recall correctly, there was actually something wrong with the aircraft that precluded them continuing.

Yeh, I think on the most recent one (2025) but there has been at least one other QF diversion there (2022) and several SQ diversions over the years. Not sure happened with them.