Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[AuSammy]

London is not everyone's destination. Only once in 30 years have I stayed in London on arrival.

Yep, in 10 arrivals into LHR, only once did I stay in London that night.

In 10 departures from LHR not a stay in London, all were from an incoming flight or ship (aka Transit)

 

[LondonAussie]

Yep, in 10 arrivals into LHR, only once did I stay in London that night.

In 10 departures from LHR not a stay in London, all were from an incoming flight or ship (aka Transit)

Why fly to/from London then?

 

[AuSammy]

Why fly to/from London then?

I thought it would be fairly obvious - a OW "hub". Most (not all) travel on OWA QFF points

The 2 x cruises returned to Southhampton and I needed to get home.
The only logical connection on OW to/from Dublin was via LHR.
The only offered OW connection from Frankfort to Dallas was via LHR
etc
etc

 

[dajop]

You know what? It’s 238 seats. It’s not for everyone. But it’s not meant to be. It’s a niche market.

5 am arrival. People in flights all around the world arrive into their destinations at OMG o’clock. Not for me ideally. But hey sometimes you take what you can get. For some the earlier the better, as they book the hotel from the night before, get to their room, nap a little , freshen up and go about their day.

 

[mbe1510]

London is not everyone's destination. Only once in 30 years have I stayed in London on arrival.

Anytime I have arrived on QF1 or BA16 I have not stayed in London an most likely off elsewhere. If I am planning to stay in London I will try to use EK code share to get an afternoon/early evening arrival to avoid arriving so early.

Feel sorry for all inbound pax into Australia that have no choice but an early arrival.

 

[Bundy Bear]

Agreed.
Currently QF has
0630 used by QF1
0505 used by QF9/219

Read a comment (I think on airliners) that at least one of the slots is a similar 0630 time..

So I could imagine Sunrise being a 1800 SYD departure arriving 0630 LHR.
Then you swap the PER and SYD aircraft, with QF10 retaining its 1150 departure to PER

Sunrise departs say 0930 LHR arriving SYD 1430 or so. (Assuming QF thinks a morning LHR departure will work)

This you can operate SYD and PER to LHR daily with 4 aircraft, admittedly with limited recovery options for delays.

I am not sure Qantas will ever find a use for that afternoon arrival into LHR, (1:30pm) it used to be used by I think QF29 out of Hong Kong.

I hope Qantas come up with a better presentation or options for economy meals on the super long flight and make sure they do lots of clean up runs, imagine all the cough and bit and pieces over the floor.

17 hours LHR-PER is bad enough 19-21 hours is going to suck and your body clock takes ages to recover, maybe Qantas could give everyone some melatonin to knock us all out for 20 hours.

Leaving UK around lunch time and arriving into the Eastern states in the evening via QF10 works well for me.
Qantas need another one of those departure time slots.

 

[SYD]

Anytime I have arrived on QF1 or BA16 I have not stayed in London an most likely off elsewhere. If I am planning to stay in London I will try to use EK code share to get an afternoon/early evening arrival to avoid arriving so early.

Feel sorry for all inbound pax into Australia that have no choice but an early arrival.

There are EK and QR options that skip the “sparrows” early arrival back into SYD also.

But back in the days with the QF/BA partnership, we all landed in LHR around 6am. Occasionally there might be a seasonal flight (eg QF31/32) that would land early arvo into LHR. The dual upside was a daytime flight eg SIN-SYD.

 

[justinbrett]

You know what? It’s 238 seats. It’s not for everyone. But it’s not meant to be. It’s a niche market.

5 am arrival. People in flights all around the world arrive into their destinations at OMG o’clock. Not for me ideally. But hey sometimes you take what you can get. For some the earlier the better, as they book the hotel from the night before, get to their room, nap a little , freshen up and go about their day.

QF16 is a 5am arrival. I usually hate early morning arrivals (though it seems most LHR flights I'm on arrive early, whether that's 5am or 7am not much difference to me).

But for QF16 coming home, I live on the Gold Coast, it means I can get an uber home without any worry about the traffic, and I can be in my bed before the sun rises, meaning I can have an extra sleep and wake up mid morning feeling fantastic.

I think there will be a lot of people going home to London or catching trains elsewhere in the UK to go home (or visit friends/family).

If you want a hotel, book it the night before.

 

[Quickstatus]

But hey sometimes you take what you can get.

Though I don't think Qantas wants to sell PS as a "not ideal but you take what you can get".

The landing slot constrains are of course what QF can get.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

17 hours LHR-PER is bad enough 19-21 hours is going to suck and your body clock takes ages to recover, maybe Qantas could give everyone some melatonin to knock us all out for 20 hours.

At least PAX will be able to buy reasonable amounts of Melatonin over the counter in either Europe or the US.
Only in Australia is it subject to ridiculous over-regulation.

f you want a hotel, book it the night before.

The fares on the non-stop flights are already far higher than other options.
So sure why not add another 200 euros.

 

[offshore171]

QF16 is a 5am arrival.

That's a punish after 22h!.

I think I'll stick with EK for Europe/UK, especially now that they have (very good) PE cabins.

The 6am A380 out of Sydney isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it gets you to your destination in Europe in the early evening of the same calendar day with one stop (about a 3h layover in Dubai).

On arrival you can head straight to hotel.

 

[dajop]

I absolutely prefer evening arrivals, but it would seem I am in the minority. Indeed how long haul flights from North America to Australia arrive at any other time than the morning? (Asia has flights that leave mid morning - early afternoon and arrive in the evening, Australia does not).

I will give you some availability figures for SQ 22 and 24 SIN-NYC this week. Make of that what you will. 19hr flight, 5:30-6am arrivals vs 5-7pm arrivals.


Some of this could be related to more connections, some of it could be down to personal preference,

 

[justinbrett]

I absolutely prefer evening arrivals, but it would seem I am in the minority. Indeed how long haul flights from North America to Australia arrive at any other time than the morning? (Asia has flights that leave mid morning - early afternoon and arrive in the evening, Australia does not).

I will give you some availability figures for SQ 22 and 24 SIN-NYC this week. Make of that what you will. 19hr flight, 5:30-6am arrivals vs 5-7pm arrivals.

View attachment 511369
Some of this could be related to more connections, some of it could be down to personal preference,

Well, QF104 does - and is perfectly timed.

But this doesn't work from CONUS, you'd either leaving LAX too early for most connecting flights, or even struggling to turn the aircraft around, or pushing curfew in SYD. I think there was such a flight in Covid for a brief period, maybe to BNE?

 

[dajop]

But this doesn't work from CONUS, you'd either leaving LAX too early for most connecting flights,

Lot of flights reach LAX or SFO before 9:30am, even some from the east coast, although if anyone was to make it work it would be UA due to the lower MCT at SFO than LAX, and curfew could create problems at SYD during southern summer, yes, but not at MEL or BNE. (noting SFO-SIN sees UA and SQ services that would have similar clock face schedules to SFO-SYD and make it work, UA where for SIN - and for SYD - it's more of a end of line destination.).

But bottom line if there was a market for it, then airlines could make it work if they really wanted to, But it's too difficult for something that is clearly in lower demand. Applies to sunrise, I think there will be demand for 5am arrivals even if a lot of us in the AFF world seem to have other preferences, It goes to the paradigm of not wasting work days (be they days leave or actual days working on business trips).

 

[Quickstatus]

I absolutely prefer evening arrivals, but it would seem I am in the minority

We both are in the #EveningArrivalsClub
At one time Qf had a B747 departing midday for the LAX-SYD. If originating in LAX, the "no mans land" between checkout and flight out of LAX did not exist compared to evening departure, and evening arrival into SYD was perfect.

 

[justinbrett]

Lot of flights reach LAX or SFO before 9:30am, even some from the east coast, although if anyone was to make it work it would be UA due to the lower MCT at SFO than LAX, and curfew could create problems at SYD during southern summer, yes, but not at MEL or BNE. (noting SFO-SIN sees UA and SQ services that would have similar clock face schedules to SFO-SYD and make it work, UA where for SIN - and for SYD - it's more of a end of line destination.).

But bottom line if there was a market for it, then airlines could make it work if they really wanted to, But it's too difficult for something that is clearly in lower demand. Applies to sunrise, I think there will be demand for 5am arrivals even if a lot of us in the AFF world seem to have other preferences, It goes to the paradigm of not wasting work days (be they days leave or actual days working on business trips).

"Lots of flights" doesn't really cut it when we're talking about, at best, daily services. Even UA is no longer daily to BNE year round.

These also don't really suit the business market - you've got a night in the US, a daytime flight, then a night in AU - as opposed to going straight from work/meetings, fly overnight and sleep, land in SYD in time for a new work day.

 

[dajop]

"Lots of flights"

When I said "lots of flights" I mean lots of flights from within the US that could connect to daytime westbound departures, so it's not as if there's no feed to mid-late morning departures. Certainly easy from the midwest and Texas (as well as the west coast and rockies). There are even east coast flights that reach LAX and SFO before 10am . (eg. MIA, IAD, PHL, JFK).

But you're right about the arriving for new work day thing, which certainly is the predominant paradigm (which is exactly what I'm suggesting, as to why Sunrise 5am arrival will work). Personally though in my peer circle I'm noticing a transition to day time type flights that allow you to reach a hotel and be in better condition for the day ahead, especially as internet connectivity onboard aircraft improves and allows a full days work in the sky.

 

[Melburnian1]

Who is likely to occupy seat 1A on the inaugural SYD-LHR?

John Mullen, Vanessa Hudson, or (although many detest him) Anthony Albanese, or someone else?

 

[Melburnian1]

Personally though in my peer circle I'm noticing a transition to day time type flights that allow you to reach a hotel and be in better condition for the day ahead, especially as internet connectivity onboard aircraft improves and allows a full days work in the sky.

Sleep experiences vary, but I often wonder (when in J) how well J (or, for the limited airlines that offer F) passengers sleep on planes.

There is a fair bit of light (and I don't like eyeshades) plus 'traffic' up and down the aisle.

I too am in the evening arrivals club. If airlines retimed many flights to Oz they might be surprised at the market's positive reaction.

 

[elanshin]

Sleep experiences vary, but I often wonder (when in J) how well J (or, for the limited airlines that offer F) passengers sleep on planes.

There is a fair bit of light (and I don't like eyeshades) plus 'traffic' up and down the aisle.

I too am in the evening arrivals club. If airlines retimed many flights to Oz they might be surprised at the market's positive reaction.

People sleep differently. I can conk out even in economy especially if I'm actually really tired. I might wake up a bit stiff and sore. I have definitely "slept" through meal services before. (Bonus points for JL /NH Y who puts a sticky note to ask them for the meal when you wake up).

Meanwhile my friend can't sleep in business with some grogg in him no matter how comfortable/quiet the place is. Everyone is just different.