Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[lovestotravel]

Some here said PS will never fly nonstop SYD-LHR because the tanks are too heavy. Apparently not. Similarly, I reckon we’ll see PS ex MEL in due course but quite a few years away (it was never going to be Day 1).

Some in QF thought it was never going to fly as intended either.

 

[SYD]

Yes, and if there are any worthy research, they have not published it. The 2019 trial flight in the 787 non stop from JFK and LHR research has never been published. They did publish a preliminary summary but it is a conclusary statement rather than an actual paper.

Presumably proprietary info if QF funded it?

An independent study would be great but who has the $s to charter a flight or three?

Like 32in seats in Y?

Not great for the the PS duration. Maybe flog them as Sky Coach type product…?

 

[RooFlyer]

I actually haven’t been to the current QF LHR lounge - since these days I fly home from Europe from anywhere except the UK. Apparently the wrecking ball is on its way to take out T3 - not a bad thing since it’s a hovel… who knows what’ll turn up but yeah, it’s a shame there won’t be some sort of Flagship experience for the PS flights.

I did them all (OW) in the recent LHR T3 lounge crawl. QF lounge def the least desirable of them, IMHO.

 

[SYD]

I did them all (OW) in the recent LHR T3 lounge crawl. QF lounge def the least desirable of them, IMHO.

I visited the space when it was still *A. Swiss?

Last few times I was at T3 flying OW (a few years ago now), I’d just head to CX F (QF hadn’t opened and BA had bubbles but not much else and AA was mediocre).

A lot of reports suggest QF is the better option for J/OWS PAX.

 

[justinbrett]

Indeed!

But I can’t see ‘awake’ being used in the middle of the flight when the whole cabin is sleeping, simply to get people’s rhythms in time with arrival

I reckon it will be same same… lights out between meals and service to allow pax to do as they want… sleep, watch tv etc.

Lights used to prepare the cabin for sleep, and again 2 hours before arrival to wake everyone.

The whole Cathay thing of serving main meals in the middle of the flight when everyone is asleep isn’t universally popular. For good reason perhaps?

Aren’t they doing a full meal service in the middle of the flight?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Aren’t they doing a full meal service in the middle of the flight?

No idea what Qantas plans to do, but Cathay had this thing - maybe still does? - on their long hauls of serving the second main meal about 8 hours into the flight, and then nothing at the end. So your 16 hour Hong Kong to JFK get main meal after takeoff, another main about 8 hours later, then nothing.

No one was raving about that. It just seemed to wake everyone up, then leave them with nothing to do before arrival.

 

[moa999]

Time will tell.
My ideal for say a SYD 1800 LHR 0600 would be.
1. Light snack early on in boarding then a dark period where you are encouraged to get a nap
2. Brunch/ lunch say 6hrs in signalling a new day
3. Dinner about 11 hrs out from London
4. Simple breakfast - coffee and muffin to maximise sleep (ideally with an arrival lounge experience as QF used to offer), but suspect this will be a full breakfast service 2 hrs out.

 

[justinbrett]

I visited the space when it was still *A. Swiss?

Last few times I was at T3 flying OW (a few years ago now), I’d just head to CX F (QF hadn’t opened and BA had bubbles but not much else and AA was mediocre).

A lot of reports suggest QF is the better option for J/OWS PAX.

Matt from Matts Planet did a good video featuring all 7 oneworld lounges. He rated QF as the best J lounge, and above AA and BA first.

I thought BA F was rubbish and AA F was just an admirals club within dining - so pretty rubbish after you’ve eaten.

I think for QF it depends on time of day, if you’re there when dining isn’t operating it’s “fine” but I wouldn’t really spend more time than it takes to drink a coffee (the only reason I went in, to get a coffee made to Australian specs ).

CX F is the clear winner.

With BA T5 bringing back the manned bar and coughtails I don’t mind it as much as I used to despise it.

No idea what Qantas plans to do, but Cathay had this thing - maybe still does? - on their long hauls of serving the second main meal about 8 hours into the flight, and then nothing at the end. So your 16 hour Hong Kong to JFK get main meal after takeoff, another main about 8 hours later, then nothing.

No one was raving about that. It just seemed to wake everyone up, then leave them with nothing to do before arrival.

VH said in one of her interviews there would be three full meal services.

At 22 hours, most people would be starving after two Y portions of food.

And I can’t see even the best aircraft sleepers being able to sleep for the entire flight. You’d get a solid 10 hours in and still have 12 to go!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Time will tell.
My ideal for say a SYD 1800 LHR 0600 would be.
1. Light snack early on in boarding then a dark period where you are encouraged to get a nap
2. Brunch/ lunch say 6hrs in signalling a new day
3. Dinner about 11 hrs out from London
4. Simple breakfast - coffee and muffin to maximise sleep (ideally with an arrival lounge experience as QF used to offer)

Maybe the premium cabins need dine on demand then?

As an economy pax those suggested times wouldn’t suit me… I’ve been at the airport since 3pm, I want a full dinner at 7, an hour after takeoff, and at my normal home dinner time.

I then want to sleep for 8-9 hours. So the second meal… maybe breakfast? Would be at the 10 hour mark.

Full lunch/dinner 6 hours later, and a final sleep/snooze before a coffee and muffin just before landing.

VH said in one of her interviews there would be three full meal services.

At 22 hours, most people would be starving after two Y portions of food.

And I can’t see even the best aircraft sleepers being able to sleep for the entire flight. You’d get a solid 10 hours in and still have 12 to go!

That’s fine, but the issue is timing. A few people seem to be hoping meals would be ‘set’ to minimise jet lag.

If that interferes with when pax obviously want to sleep, regardless of whether it’s breakfast or dinner time in SYD/LHR, that’s not necessarily a good thing.

CX economy is the example of that where they have tried to set the meal time at the destination but the passengers are asleep and they don’t like it. Why wake everyone up because some scientist says so? Everyone is different when it comes to managing jet lag.

 

[moa999]

economy pax those suggested times wouldn’t suit me

Think the point of these ultra long haul flights is to get you in the timezone early to minimise jetlag at the other end, ergo my suggested meals (particularly for elites who have already partaken at the departure lounge).

The ideal way to do this is a long sleep I the last 6-8 hrs into London.
You can either do this by staying up for say the first 15hrs of the flight , or a nap then an artificial day

 

[jase05]

Maybe the premium cabins need dine on demand then?

Absolutely they need to be.

 

[transpactraveller]

Time will tell.
My ideal for say a SYD 1800 LHR 0600 would be.
1. Light snack early on in boarding then a dark period where you are encouraged to get a nap
2. Brunch/ lunch say 6hrs in signalling a new day
3. Dinner about 11 hrs out from London
4. Simple breakfast - coffee and muffin to maximise sleep (ideally with an arrival lounge experience as QF used to offer), but suspect this will be a full breakfast service 2 hrs out.

It will likely be a full meal after takeoff, and full breakfast at 4am London time! It's just the placement of the 3rd meal that's not certain. Maybe QF can do dine on demand for the mid-flight meal!

You don't want to sleep after the first meal though, you want to try to stay awake until mid-flight and then sleep on the second half.

There's an AA arrivals lounge in LHR T3 but they only accept AA and BA passengers, not QF.

 

[moa999]

There's an AA arrivals lounge in LHR T3 but they only accept AA and BA passengers, not QF.

As I said as QF used to offer.

Arrangement ended in Jan 2020

Qantas pulls the plug on London Heathrow arrivals lounge access

Access to the arrivals lounge at Heathrow T3 is no longer available to inbound Qantas passengers.

www.executivetraveller.com

Of course the then rationale of Chauffer Drive has also gone by the wayside

 

[justinbrett]

Maybe the premium cabins need dine on demand then?

As an economy pax those suggested times wouldn’t suit me… I’ve been at the airport since 3pm, I want a full dinner at 7, an hour after takeoff, and at my normal home dinner time.

I then want to sleep for 8-9 hours. So the second meal… maybe breakfast? Would be at the 10 hour mark.

Full lunch/dinner 6 hours later, and a final sleep/snooze before a coffee and muffin just before landing.


That’s fine, but the issue is timing. A few people seem to be hoping meals would be ‘set’ to minimise jet lag.

If that interferes with when pax obviously want to sleep, regardless of whether it’s breakfast or dinner time in SYD/LHR, that’s not necessarily a good thing.

CX economy is the example of that where they have tried to set the meal time at the destination but the passengers are asleep and they don’t like it. Why wake everyone up because some scientist says so? Everyone is different when it comes to managing jet lag.

You can’t please eveyone. For every pax who wants to sleep there’s at least another wanting to eat. I guess they’ll get feedback as to what pax want to do - but I’ve seen plenty of people sleep through meals before. It is possible.

I reckon the meals will be lunch, dinner halfway through and then breakfast before landing. Serving breakfast at the start of the flight is probably a step too far. Or maybe they’ll call them dinner, supper and breakfast. But I’m not sure what you’re proposing - a 16-18 hour window without meals? That just makes no sense to me.

 

[exceladdict]

Wish they’d gone 2-5-2 in economy. So much better if less than 100% occupied.

With advances in IFE it shouldn’t be so much of an issue these days.

It's hard enough climbing over one person when stuck in a middle seat, let alone two. Yes it would be great to spread out, but goodness that middle would be terrible

You can’t please eveyone. For every pax who wants to sleep there’s at least another wanting to eat.

Exactly. It's already a problem on 12+ hour flights like the Syd DFW route. As others have said, always someone making noise when you want to sleep...

 

[RooFlyer]

Given that Qantas serves a breakfast dish domestically at almost anytime up to 1:30pm (my own experience), what they call PS meals and what the meal represents to a given passenger are probably going to be totally different things!

How about 'Neil's grazing menu' - non-committal.

Dine on demand would solve so many issues.

 

[opusman]

How about 'Neil's grazing menu' - non-committal.

AKA any time is a good time for a big bowl of soup

 

[mbe1510]

Interesting he didn't really answer the question about whether Airbus would make a profit on all the work that's gone in to designing these 12 aircraft for Qantas if no other airline is interested in buying any.

I could see some Asian carrier running the numbers over this aircraft at some stage. None are flying to South American non-stop due to the distance. Turkish would be another airline.

Can't see BA doing it given they can fly anywhere in the world apart from Australia non-stop and I doubt a small sub fleet is financially worth it unlike Qantas.

 

[Quickstatus]

Presumably proprietary info if QF funded it?

That makes sense

If that interferes with when pax obviously want to sleep, regardless of whether it’s breakfast or dinner time in SYD/LHR, that’s not necessarily a good thing.

Qantas basically says passengers can do what they like but we have our own schedule whether they like it or not. They have not published that schedule and I'm not sure that it is based on science because while there might be some scientific recommendations, I suspect commercial realities will be more important. Using science as marketing is also not science

 

[aikman]

"Cabin lighting to combat jet lag"? As if they actually care.

I think the reality will be - lights are out, shut up, sleep and don't bother us for the next 22 hours. Well feed you when we feel like it.