Qantas pilots face redundancy.

Discussion in 'Travel News' started by Mal, May 14, 2014.

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  1. Mal

    Mal Enthusiast

    Dec 25, 2004
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  2. under the radar

    under the radar Established Member

    Apr 8, 2010
    everyone/everything has a 'use by' date.. not just QF pilots.. just because they are seen as 'special' (hence all the media coverage..even on the tv news!!), doesn't make them exempt from the downsizing of QF.. its hardly been hidden that the 767 fleet will be retired and the 744 fleet will be reduced ... many pilots have chosen over the last few years to 'swap over'/retrain to the A380 or A330 fleet. The redundancy package will be offered to Captains/First Officers of the 767/747 those who are generally the longest serving crew, where the 'cost of training' has already been recouped... did they ALL think they could keep their job flying a soon to be non existent/downsized fleet??

    I took a F/A QF redundancy package in 2011...along with over 200 others... (over my period of employ, 1989-2011, QF F/As where offered redundancy 3, maybe 4 times over that period) where was our media coverage?? BOOHOO :D
    • Like Like x 5
  3. JohnPhelan

    JohnPhelan Established Member

    Nov 5, 2010
    To keep it in perspective, they're looking for up to 100 767 and 747 pilots to put up their hands for voluntary redundancy. That's out of a total number of pilots in those fleets of about 550. So the vast majority will be staying - some to continue on the 744s and no doubt some to retrain on other aircraft types (including, in time, the 787 !)
  4. under the radar

    under the radar Established Member

    Apr 8, 2010
    exactly...QF will only adopt the 'last in, first out' rule if there aren't sufficient numbers who take up the offer.. and in my experience, if that occurred, the number comparatively minute..

    its just a fact of life...things change. QF still has a 'generation' of employees who think that their ' original position is for life' (and this very much applies to 767/747 Captains/First Officers)...this applies to other 'industries' in OZ as well

    I forecast that when the current generation of aircraft/jobs get superseded by the next generation of aircraft/jobs....the same will occur... over...and over....human nature I guess :shock:
  5. Mwenenzi

    Mwenenzi Established Member

    May 17, 2006
    I suspect a lot of these pilots would have been with QF for many years to many decades. Those getting close to retirement age (and possible health issues) may get more $$ from a redundancy than from normal earning up to retirement. This happened ~10 years ago where I work. Guys in their late 50's & 60's and who had been employed for 20+ ~ 30+ years were offered more in redundancy than they would have earned up to a nominal 65 age retirement. Was a stampede to to sign on the dotted line, lest the offer be restricted. A few returned as contractors 1 year later
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Danger

    Danger Senior Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    There are reports the redundancy offer is 12 months' salary. Wow. Where I work redundancy is two weeks for every full year of service.
  7. TomVexille

    TomVexille Enthusiast

    Nov 12, 2013
    I would think it's meant to be an incitement to get the numbers QF want voluntarily.
  8. Travelqueen

    Travelqueen Member

    Jun 23, 2012

    Hi under the radar,

    out of interest, what did you do after your redundancy? Are you still involved in the travel industry, or has being a FA, given you a leap to a new direction in life?

    ps....sorry you didn't get any media best friend is a qantas FA, and I'm always concerned for her job.

  9. amaroo

    amaroo Enthusiast

    Sep 22, 2011
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    Doesn't the taxpayer pick up a fair chunk of that tab?

    RAAF > commercial airline seems to be a popular career path....
    • Like Like x 1
  10. DC3

    DC3 Established Member

    Jan 8, 2010
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    Are you covered by an industry award? Maybe not.

    I believe that voluntary redundancies in the NSW Public Service typically work out at 52 weeks pay, after 10+ years (?) of service.
  11. under the radar

    under the radar Established Member

    Apr 8, 2010
    #11 under the radar, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
    hi TQ,

    Due to some relatively good planning.. and the planets aligning well... and other circumstances.. I'm surviving ;)

    I vow never to return to a 'frontline' customer service position again... I've spent my whole working life in customer service..4 yrs in retail just out of school and the last 23 yrs as a Longhaul QF F/A, gave it my taught me a lot about many things;). But it drained me, and at the same time I developed a very 'thick skin' ;). It was a love/hate relationship :D
    ...and contrary to some peoples opinions... not everyone can do it :shock:

    oh and I was speaking very tongue in cheek about the lack of media coverage thing:D ... I wouldn't wish to have my 'private circumstances'/EBA/'conditions' plastered all over the media and discussed by I'm not going to enter into any such discussion about the pilots...its no one else's business

    I wish your friend well..the satisfaction she gets must come from within.. just by knowing herself, she does her best and does it well... it can be a very thankless job

    Happy flying everybody...thankyou and goodnight :D
    • Like Like x 3
  12. amaroo

    amaroo Enthusiast

    Sep 22, 2011
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  13. eastwest101

    eastwest101 Established Member

    Oct 26, 2010
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    The 1989 dispute was really the building blocks for CX and SQ plus some early mover Middle East airlines to really staff up and expand. I dunno what happened to a lot of the AN pilots in 2001 but I expect the younger ones went overseas (or to DJ/QF or JQ) and the older ones retired or went somewhere else like CASA/Private Jets maybe training? I know that the USA had a glut of pilots around 2001 but not sure what has happened since.

    Have a look at the training costs and pre-requisites of modern airline pilots, there is a reason why the salaries are so high.
  14. mrpooky

    mrpooky Member

    Nov 29, 2012
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    Even that's better than I've seen. I've worked with three different companies that have gone through redundancies. The best I saw was two weeks for the first year of service plus one week for each subsequent year of service.

    I'd be pretty happy to be made redundant if I received a year's salary from it.

  15. amaroo

    amaroo Enthusiast

    Sep 22, 2011
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    Pilots have got it pretty good in the lucky county.......not so good elsewhere.

    The U.S. Airline Pilots Who Barely Make Minimum Wage – Skift

    Pilot and Co-Pilot Hourly Pay at Regional Airlines [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot and Co-Pilot Hourly Pay at Regional AirlinesPilot and Co-Pilot Hourly Pay at Regional AirlinesAirline[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year One[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year Five[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Ten[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year 15[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Maximum[/TH]
    American Eagle $26 $40 $82 $94 $104
    Express Jet $22.05 $44 $80 $91 $97
    Republic $23 $37 $69 $95 $119
    SkyWest # $22 $44 $61 $98 $112
    Air Wisconsin $26 $42 $82 $95 $101
    Go Jet $25 $38 $83 $97 $97
    Horizon* $30 $44 $90 $104 $114
    Mesa # $19 $35 $52 $87 $104
    Pinnacle $25 $37 $77 $87 $87
    Silver Airways* $20 $33 $53 $69 $75
    Trans States $23 $39 $78 $91 $97
    Low $19 $33 $52 $69 $75
    High $30 $44 $90 $104 $119
    Average $23.73 $39.36 $73.36 $91.64 $100.64

    Major Airline Pilot Pay Comparison, 80 Hours per Month

    [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Airline[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year One[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year Five[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Ten[/TH] [TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Maximum[/TH]
    Airtran $41,040 $87,370 $148,858 $156,691
    Alaska $45,847 $100,345 $167,052 $173,173
    American $33,600 $95,040 $170,880 $204,480
    Delta $58,579 $121,915 $167,437 $244,550
    FedEx $58,725 $123,041 $198,224 $242,893
    JetBlue $45,120 $87,888 $133,709 $152,352
    Southwest $54,720 $123,619 $201,427 $205,872
    United $58,483 $130,641 $171,360 $225,389
    UPS $33,946 $128,698 $217,939 $227,674
    US Airways $39,571 $83,136 $90,950 $153,178
    Average $46,963 $108,169 $166,784 $198,625
  16. amaroo

    amaroo Enthusiast

    Sep 22, 2011
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    The age of entitlement ?

    Pilots not happy with Qantas redundancy offer

    Qantas will not attract enough interest from pilots to reach its goal of around 100 voluntary redundancies from 767 and 747 pilots based on its initial offer of 12 months's salary, the Australian & International Pilots Association said after a poll of its members.

    Pilots not happy with Qantas redundancy offer
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  17. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
    BNE, SYD and CNX
    I believe where I work there is no provision for redundancy payout. If there is I haven't been able to find it.
  18. Boris spatsky

    Boris spatsky Established Member

    Oct 8, 2010
    Fair Work Australia has minimum redundancy requirements - won't be necessarily anywhere as generous as a year though...
  19. NM


    Aug 27, 2004
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    See here for minimum payout requirements.
  20. jb747

    jb747 Senior Member

    Mar 9, 2010
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    #20 jb747, May 27, 2014
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
    There are compulsory redundancy provisions within the contract. As I understand it, there are varying taxation treatments depending upon whether the redundancy is compulsory or mandatory.

    From the company point of view, redundancy within the fleets that are losing the aircraft would be ideal. But, contractually, it's last on first off. So, last on are probably A380 SOs. Then you replace them with 747 SO...and so on across the ranks and types. Potentially almost every pilot (on every fleet) would need to move types, or be demoted. Conversion costs are most likely in the six figures. Messy is an understatement.

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