Qantas pilots face redundancy.

[Mal]

Qantas pilots face redundancy for first time in 40 years



With the cost of training a pilot, I hope they've thought this through carefully...

Note the BrisbaneTimes website is currently experiencing issues and that link may not be working at the moment...

 

[under the radar]

everyone/everything has a 'use by' date.. not just QF pilots.. just because they are seen as 'special' (hence all the media coverage..even on the tv news!!), doesn't make them exempt from the downsizing of QF.. its hardly been hidden that the 767 fleet will be retired and the 744 fleet will be reduced ... many pilots have chosen over the last few years to 'swap over'/retrain to the A380 or A330 fleet. The redundancy package will be offered to Captains/First Officers of the 767/747 fleet..ie those who are generally the longest serving crew, where the 'cost of training' has already been recouped... did they ALL think they could keep their job flying a soon to be non existent/downsized fleet??

I took a F/A QF redundancy package in 2011...along with over 200 others... (over my period of employ, 1989-2011, QF F/As where offered redundancy 3, maybe 4 times over that period) where was our media coverage?? BOOHOO

 

[JohnPhelan]

To keep it in perspective, they're looking for up to 100 767 and 747 pilots to put up their hands for voluntary redundancy. That's out of a total number of pilots in those fleets of about 550. So the vast majority will be staying - some to continue on the 744s and no doubt some to retrain on other aircraft types (including, in time, the 787 !)

 

[under the radar]

To keep it in perspective, they're looking for up to 100 767 and 747 pilots to put up their hands for voluntary redundancy. That's out of a total number of pilots in those fleets of about 550. So the vast majority will be staying - some to continue on the 744s and no doubt some to retrain on other aircraft types (including, in time, the 787 !)

exactly...QF will only adopt the 'last in, first out' rule if there aren't sufficient numbers who take up the offer.. and in my experience, if that occurred, the number comparatively minute..

its just a fact of life...things change. QF still has a 'generation' of employees who think that their ' original position is for life' (and this very much applies to 767/747 Captains/First Officers)...this applies to other 'industries' in OZ as well


I forecast that when the current generation of aircraft/jobs get superseded by the next generation of aircraft/jobs....the same will occur... over...and over....human nature I guess :shock:

 

[Mwenenzi]

To keep it in perspective, they're looking for up to 100 767 and 747 pilots to put up their hands for voluntary redundancy. That's out of a total number of pilots in those fleets of about 550....

I suspect a lot of these pilots would have been with QF for many years to many decades. Those getting close to retirement age (and possible health issues) may get more $$ from a redundancy than from normal earning up to retirement. This happened ~10 years ago where I work. Guys in their late 50's & 60's and who had been employed for 20+ ~ 30+ years were offered more in redundancy than they would have earned up to a nominal 65 age retirement. Was a stampede to to sign on the dotted line, lest the offer be restricted. A few returned as contractors 1 year later

 

[Danger]

There are reports the redundancy offer is 12 months' salary. Wow. Where I work redundancy is two weeks for every full year of service.

 

[TomVexille]

There are reports the redundancy offer is 12 months' salary. Wow. Where I work redundancy is two weeks for every full year of service.

I would think it's meant to be an incitement to get the numbers QF want voluntarily.

 

[Travelqueen]

everyone/everything has a 'use by' date.. not just QF pilots.. just because they are seen as 'special' (hence all the media coverage..even on the tv news!!), doesn't make them exempt from the downsizing of QF.. its hardly been hidden that the 767 fleet will be retired and the 744 fleet will be reduced ... many pilots have chosen over the last few years to 'swap over'/retrain to the A380 or A330 fleet. The redundancy package will be offered to Captains/First Officers of the 767/747 fleet..ie those who are generally the longest serving crew, where the 'cost of training' has already been recouped... did they ALL think they could keep their job flying a soon to be non existent/downsized fleet??

I took a F/A QF redundancy package in 2011...along with over 200 others... (over my period of employ, 1989-2011, QF F/As where offered redundancy 3, maybe 4 times over that period) where was our media coverage?? BOOHOO

Hi under the radar,

out of interest, what did you do after your redundancy? Are you still involved in the travel industry, or has being a FA, given you a leap to a new direction in life?

ps....sorry you didn't get any media coverage......my best friend is a qantas FA, and I'm always concerned for her job.

TQ

 

[amaroo]

With the cost of training a pilot, I hope they've thought this through carefully...

Doesn't the taxpayer pick up a fair chunk of that tab?

RAAF > commercial airline seems to be a popular career path....

 

[DC3]

There are reports the redundancy offer is 12 months' salary. Wow. Where I work redundancy is two weeks for every full year of service.

Are you covered by an industry award? Maybe not.

I believe that voluntary redundancies in the NSW Public Service typically work out at 52 weeks pay, after 10+ years (?) of service.

 

[under the radar]

Hi under the radar,

out of interest, what did you do after your redundancy? Are you still involved in the travel industry, or has being a FA, given you a leap to a new direction in life?

ps....sorry you didn't get any media coverage......my best friend is a qantas FA, and I'm always concerned for her job.

TQ

hi TQ,

Due to some relatively good planning.. and the planets aligning well... and other circumstances.. I'm surviving

I vow never to return to a 'frontline' customer service position again... I've spent my whole working life in customer service..4 yrs in retail just out of school and the last 23 yrs as a Longhaul QF F/A, gave it my all..it taught me a lot about many things. But it drained me, and at the same time I developed a very 'thick skin' . It was a love/hate relationship
...and contrary to some peoples opinions... not everyone can do it :shock:

oh and I was speaking very tongue in cheek about the lack of media coverage thing ... I wouldn't wish to have my 'private circumstances'/EBA/'conditions' plastered all over the media and discussed by others...so I'm not going to enter into any such discussion about the pilots...its no one else's business

I wish your friend well..the satisfaction she gets must come from within.. just by knowing herself, she does her best and does it well... it can be a very thankless job

Happy flying everybody...thankyou and goodnight

 

[amaroo]

The AM program interviewed the AIPA man this morning. Listen here AM - Qantas offering pilots voluntary redundancy 14/05/2014

 

[eastwest101]

The 1989 dispute was really the building blocks for CX and SQ plus some early mover Middle East airlines to really staff up and expand. I dunno what happened to a lot of the AN pilots in 2001 but I expect the younger ones went overseas (or to DJ/QF or JQ) and the older ones retired or went somewhere else like CASA/Private Jets maybe training? I know that the USA had a glut of pilots around 2001 but not sure what has happened since.

Have a look at the training costs and pre-requisites of modern airline pilots, there is a reason why the salaries are so high.

 

[mrpooky]

There are reports the redundancy offer is 12 months' salary. Wow. Where I work redundancy is two weeks for every full year of service.

Even that's better than I've seen. I've worked with three different companies that have gone through redundancies. The best I saw was two weeks for the first year of service plus one week for each subsequent year of service.

I'd be pretty happy to be made redundant if I received a year's salary from it.

mrpooky.

 

[amaroo]

Have a look at the training costs and pre-requisites of modern airline pilots, there is a reason why the salaries are so high.

Pilots have got it pretty good in the lucky county.......not so good elsewhere.

The U.S. Airline Pilots Who Barely Make Minimum Wage – Skift

Pilot and Co-Pilot Hourly Pay at Regional Airlines[TABLE="class: table table-striped table-bordered, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot and Co-Pilot Hourly Pay at Regional AirlinesPilot and Co-Pilot Hourly Pay at Regional AirlinesAirline[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year One[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year Five[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Ten[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year 15[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Maximum[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]American Eagle[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$26[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$40[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$82[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$94[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Express Jet[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$22.05[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$44[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$80[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$91[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Republic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$23[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$37[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$69[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$95[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$119[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]SkyWest #[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$22[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$44[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$61[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$98[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$112[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Air Wisconsin[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$26[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$42[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$82[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$95[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$101[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Go Jet[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$25[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$38[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$83[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$97[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Horizon*[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$30[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$44[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$90[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$104[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$114[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Mesa #[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$19[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$35[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$52[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$87[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$104[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Pinnacle[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$25[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$37[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$77[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$87[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$87[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Silver Airways*[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$20[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$33[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$53[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$69[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Trans States[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$23[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$39[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$78[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$91[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Low[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$19[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$33[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$52[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$69[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]High[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$30[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$44[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$90[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$104[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$119[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Average[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$23.73[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$39.36[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$73.36[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$91.64[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$100.64[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Major Airline Pilot Pay Comparison, 80 Hours per Month
[TABLE="class: table table-striped table-bordered, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Airline[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year One[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Co-Pilot/Year Five[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Ten[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #FFB900, align: left"]Pilot/Year Maximum[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Airtran[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$41,040[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$87,370[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$148,858[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$156,691[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Alaska[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$45,847[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$100,345[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$167,052[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$173,173[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]American[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$33,600[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$95,040[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$170,880[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$204,480[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]Delta[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$58,579[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$121,915[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$167,437[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$244,550[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]FedEx[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$58,725[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$123,041[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$198,224[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$242,893[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]JetBlue[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$45,120[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$87,888[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$133,709[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$152,352[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Southwest[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$54,720[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$123,619[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$201,427[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$205,872[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]United[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$58,483[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$130,641[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$171,360[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$225,389[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]UPS[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$33,946[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$128,698[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$217,939[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$227,674[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]US Airways[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$39,571[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$83,136[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$90,950[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #F3F4F4"]$153,178[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]Average[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$46,963[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$108,169[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$166,784[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #E5E5E5"]$198,625

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[amaroo]

The age of entitlement ?

Pilots not happy with Qantas redundancy offer

Qantas will not attract enough interest from pilots to reach its goal of around 100 voluntary redundancies from 767 and 747 pilots based on its initial offer of 12 months's salary, the Australian & International Pilots Association said after a poll of its members.

Pilots not happy with Qantas redundancy offer

 

[JohnK]

There are reports the redundancy offer is 12 months' salary. Wow. Where I work redundancy is two weeks for every full year of service.

I believe where I work there is no provision for redundancy payout. If there is I haven't been able to find it.

 

[Boris spatsky]

Fair Work Australia has minimum redundancy requirements - won't be necessarily anywhere as generous as a year though...

 

[NM]

I believe where I work there is no provision for redundancy payout. If there is I haven't been able to find it.

See here for minimum payout requirements.

 

[jb747]

There are compulsory redundancy provisions within the contract. As I understand it, there are varying taxation treatments depending upon whether the redundancy is compulsory or mandatory.

From the company point of view, redundancy within the fleets that are losing the aircraft would be ideal. But, contractually, it's last on first off. So, last on are probably A380 SOs. Then you replace them with 747 SO...and so on across the ranks and types. Potentially almost every pilot (on every fleet) would need to move types, or be demoted. Conversion costs are most likely in the six figures. Messy is an understatement.