Qantas passenger faces jail term for stealing

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JohnK

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Sounds like an overreaction to me

....

I guess unless we ever find out what happened in this case, it's still premature to even contemplate this question, and the funny thing is that it seems to shift a whole lot of the responsibility onto the airlines rather than the person.
I am not an expert but banning alcohol on flights is a total overreaction. Most people are able to control their alcohol consumption and we shouldn't let a tiny minority spoil it for the rest.

In saying that this incident didn't start out as someone simply drunk. This person reached breaking point. Other factors are also in play. Drugs was a possible factor. I saw them on the floor. I also think depression may have been a factor but I am not a medical professional.
 

jetlagger

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I am not an expert but banning alcohol on flights is a total overreaction. Most people are able to control their alcohol consumption and we shouldn't let a tiny minority spoil it for the rest.

In saying that this incident didn't start out as someone simply drunk. This person reached breaking point. Other factors are also in play. Drugs was a possible factor. I saw them on the floor. I also think depression may have been a factor but I am not a medical professional.

Any sensible adult should realise their matured responsibilities without blaming any external factors for their complete inappropriate idiotic behaviour.
 
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D

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In saying that this incident didn't start out as someone simply drunk. This person reached breaking point. Other factors are also in play. Drugs was a possible factor. I saw them on the floor. I also think depression may have been a factor but I am not a medical professional.

JohnK, I respect your wise decision not to go further into this (as the guy has been charged and will be appearing in court) but I struggle to have sympathies for the actions of someone who may need help (mental illness, depression, personal struggles etc) when those actions place many others at risk and the kind of behaviour that was reported does place the plane at risk (and the pilots decision supports that).

I don't know what the answer is, but quite clearly, the reports are that he was drunk. If he was also on medication and also had other issues weighing him down, turps is the last think he should have been on and flying in that state is also a no-go. The only question I have, is who is responsible for assessing the ability of a pax to fly without placing an aircraft at risk?
 

suze2000

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These days with electronic checkin and hand luggage it may be that no-one even spoke to this guy before he presented at the gate. The ticket girls barely glance at your ticket when scanning and the FAs aren't really interested in you unless you are status. SO who's supposed to judge a person's fitness to fly? Possibly the passenger himself.

(as an aside, I am careful not to drink alcohol when I am in a foul mood. It just amplifies it for me and is best avoided)
 

JohnK

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JohnK, I respect your wise decision not to go further into this (as the guy has been charged and will be appearing in court) but I struggle to have sympathies for the actions of someone who may need help (mental illness, depression, personal struggles etc) when those actions place many others at risk and the kind of behaviour that was reported does place the plane at risk (and the pilots decision supports that).

I don't know what the answer is, but quite clearly, the reports are that he was drunk. If he was also on medication and also had other issues weighing him down, turps is the last think he should have been on and flying in that state is also a no-go. The only question I have, is who is responsible for assessing the ability of a pax to fly without placing an aircraft at risk?
A really difficult situation that started innocently by him being given 2 drinks during dinner service and then expecting to be able to order 2 drinks at once throughout the flight.

He questioned this double standard and it started to heat up. He thought he was being clever taking alcohol from the galley when he shouldn't but he could have been even more clever to start with by not harping on about ordering 2 drinks at once, being an Emirates customer and Qantas not having tabasco. He was not thinking clearly. Perhaps he panicked.

With each passing incident, spoken to by CSM, spoken to by AFP, stealing alcohol, spoken to by AFP again and admitting he was reaching breaking point you could see he was getting more agitated. Towards the end it was like Jekyll and Hyde. Friendly one minute and aggressive the next.

I know it is not acceptable. He should be responsible for his actions. But and there is a big but here that doesn't make sense to me. A normal person does not take several types of relaxants such as valium and mixes them with alcohol before and during the flight. Perhaps he was trying to knock himself out.

I think, actually more like know because I overheard, he has been in trouble before with police for similar incident. This is like a cry for help that is being ignored?
 

Foreigner

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Whatever the circumstances the safety of all passengers and crew is paramount.
 

Slime

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Alcohol is a very important part of many Australians lives.
Sometimes officials over react but maybe not so in this case where everybody safety needs to be ensured.

 
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A really difficult situation that started innocently by him being given 2 drinks during dinner service

I've always assumed airline policy would be 1 drink at a time, so that was a mistake IMHO.

If he had been in this situation previously, one would have thought the airline would, or should have known of the history. He may find his cry for help is answered by airlines refusing to carry him from now on.

Regardless, alcohol is a potent drug and it's consumption should be monitored by airlines .........and the pax. Alcohol doesn't fix depression and alcohol doesn't fix aggression and an aircraft is no place to be experimenting with it. That said, I enjoy nothing more than relaxing back with a wine at the end of a day on the flight home so I really hope situations like this are viewed for what they are..........rare (when pegged against total pax numbers per annum).
 

mannej

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If he had been in this situation previously, one would have thought the airline would, or should have known of the history. He may find his cry for help is answered by airlines refusing to carry him from now on.

A similar incident may be referring to the alcohol component, not necessary whilst flying. FWIW, how much information do the airlines share between each other with incidents like this?
 

JohnK

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I've always assumed airline policy would be 1 drink at a time, so that was a mistake IMHO.

If he had been in this situation previously, one would have thought the airline would, or should have known of the history. He may find his cry for help is answered by airlines refusing to carry him from now.
Yes the 2 drinks was a mistake and the FA acknowledged they had made a mistake assuming dinner service would take a while. Which it did.

The situation I was referring to did not occur on an airline.

I can see where this will end up. He now becomes the victim?
I hope not. And that was not the intention of my point.
 

DC3

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JohnK, although I quoted part of your post, it was not my intention to read "the victim" into anything that you posted. Apologies if it seemed that way.

It seems to have become a classic defence.
 

MEL_Traveller

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I've always assumed airline policy would be 1 drink at a time, so that was a mistake IMHO.

Regardless, alcohol is a potent drug and it's consumption should be monitored by airlines .........and the pax. Alcohol doesn't fix depression and alcohol doesn't fix aggression and an aircraft is no place to be experimenting with it. That said, I enjoy nothing more than relaxing back with a wine at the end of a day on the flight home so I really hope situations like this are viewed for what they are..........rare (when pegged against total pax numbers per annum).

Depends on the airline. Many US airlines will serve a double (100ml) of alcohol in a drink at one time. Some like CX have no idea how to mix a drink and will waive the gin bottle in close proximity to the tonic and think that's enough. Qantas is extremely generous with alcohol - the small bottles of wine they distribute is well over a standard drink - closer to two.

Is this a major issue? I don't really think so. Should other passengers and crew have to put up with it? Absolutely not. Should passengers get into this state in the first place? Absolutely not. But the air is really not much different to the ground, and these things will happen. Unfortunate as it may be, the crew are trained to deal with it and I don't for a moment think the safety of the physical plane and it's ability to fly was in any danger.

Most people enjoy alcohol responsibly, i can't see a need for a knee-jerk reaction.
 

mannej

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Spirits? 100ml is more than triple! :shock:

I have done some digging for you John, it would seem the definition of a double can vary from country to country. We get ripped off here as a double is 60ml, but it may be considered 100ml elsewhere.
 

JohnK

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I have done some digging for you John, it would seem the definition of a double can vary from country to country. We get ripped off here as a double is 60ml, but it may be considered 100ml elsewhere.
Understood.

If 30mL of spirits is a standard drink then you are consuming more than 3 standard drinks with a US double.
 
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But the air is really not much different to the ground,

If someone goes troppo on the ground, it's highly unlikely those in close proximity can fall 10000 ft.

This incident may seem like it presented no danger to the aircraft (and pax and crew) but any incident that includes an out of control person represents a possible danger to aircraft. The fact he broke out of cable tie handcuffs a few times is testament to that. Interesting also that AFP were on board.....the return of plain clothes air-marshals (as the US call them)? Were they armed? That in itself would be a danger to aircraft situation. Perhaps none of the above, but I disagree with labelling this incident (and others like it) as "situation normal" event.

I do agree with your comment of no need for a kneejerk reaction to the service of alcohol on board, but I wouldn't like to see the pax seated next to me lining up bottles of rum just because the meal service might be a bit slow...........they're on board a commercial airline, not at a B&S ball!
 

MEL_Traveller

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Spirits? 100ml is more than triple! :shock:

US Airlines (domestic) use those small bottles which are 50ml each. It is not uncommon for two of those to be put into drinks. And not uncommon for a couple of those (100mlx2) served in close succession. I saw a man ask for a coffee and Baileys and the FA put a in a double (after checking he was getting a 'ride' from the airport).

I think BA also has the 50ml bottles and it's not entirely uncommon to be given one or two of those with your snack.

On the ground, where profits are more of an issue for bars, restaurants and clubs, you are pretty much on the mark for smaller serving sizes - I'd say 30ml is more the norm. In thailand you'll often get significantly less, but in places like Hong kong and China 'free-pour' is common (just pour from the bottle and mixer until the glass is full).

The LAX OW lounge uses a 50ml sinngle shot as far as I could make out. But they were on the 'RSA' bandwagon - single shot only. :-|
 

MEL_Traveller

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If someone goes troppo on the ground, it's highly unlikely those in close proximity can fall 10000 ft.

This incident may seem like it presented no danger to the aircraft (and pax and crew) but any incident that includes an out of control person represents a possible danger to aircraft.

the flight deck is secure. the doors can't be opened. there are able bodied men and women on the aircraft, plus crew. I'm not concerned about the safety of the aircraft falling out of the sky.

Unpleasant experience indeed. Shouldn't happen. Possible injury to individual passengers/crew is a real possibility. But I just can't see the entire plane being in danger.

It's like smoking on planes.... people get outraged when someone is caught smoking. I don't really see that as major safety issue. If the crew catch someone smoking they can ensure the cigarette is properly extinguished and the safety of the plane is maintained. It is the passengers who smoke and are undetected that is my main concern.
 
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