Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth)-Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soar

[TomVexille]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

The crucial dimension of your comment is that 'we all fly business class'. PER-LHR makes a lot of sense for J travelers. It makes markedly less sense for Y travelers (ie the vast majority of the flying public). The value proposition is even worse for Y travelers who have lounge access in Dubai.

At the end of the day, QF have announced a premium heavy configuration for these aircraft. It's pretty obvious what their target market is. The Y seats they sell will be a bonus I think.

 

[levelnine]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

FWIW I think flights over 15 hours require a bit of a rethink in plane design anyways. Passengers need a bit of space to stretch and walk.

Which is precisely what QF has failed to do.

At the end of the day, QF have announced a premium heavy configuration for these aircraft. It's pretty obvious what their target market is. The Y seats they sell will be a bonus I think.

That is certainly true, but this observation is of absolutely no significance to the 166 people that may (or, if they vote with their feet, may not) be in Y.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

For these Y pax a decision matrix might include PER vs SIN, PER vs DXB, PER vs HKG., PER vs KUL...

 

[TomVexille]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

That is certainly true, but this observation is of absolutely no significance to the 166 people that may (or, if they vote with their feet, may not) be in Y.

Oh I agree, but I suspect that their corporate contracts are who they are looking to please.

 

[Vim Fuego]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Perth has the highest number of British born residents in Australia, that must have had some impact on the decision?

"Around one in every eight residents of Perth was born in the UK (12% or 184,000 people). This is the largest overseas-born population group living in Perth by quite a margin, and the largest overseas-born population group found in any capital city in Australia" - source ABS Social Trends 2014

 

[harvyk]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I think Australians must be the only people who defend stopovers (not necessarily a bad thing).

Australian's are also one of the only countries in the world that virtually all international flights from it's major population centers are long haul, with the only other country sharing that club being New Zealand.
I can certainly do long haul in Y, and most other people can as well. That said I don't exactly mind the stop over in DXB. A chance to get out, and stretch the legs, especially when flying Y, and I have to admit the 9 across arrangement would certainly give me pause, especially as I have pretty broad shoulders, and thus am already getting pretty close to my seat mate in a normal width seat, let alone a skinny one.

 

[Flying Fox]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Wouldn't price of the service come into play?

We don't know if the cost of the flights would be the same, more or less than SYD/MEL-LHR. I believe that at one stage QF indicated charging a premium for PTH-LHR service.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

+1 this is marketing spin, 737 economy from the east coast in many cases then 787 economy for 17 hours? nice idea but where's the market for it?

Possibly some premium travel.

I don't think anyone would want to do 17+ hours direct in economy when there are other viable options that add only 1-2 hours to the trip. And if the route is a monopoly then airfares are likely to be expensive.

And if you were on the East Coast would you seriously consider a 4+ hour flight in a 737 to connect to a 17+ hour flight in a tight 787? Most likely not.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

On the great circle PER-LHR will be 300 km longer than EK's AKL-DXB. Currently EK449 flight duration according to FA is 17 hr 10 min flying west.

So the PER-LHR would probably take about 20-25 minutes longer - say 17.5 hours. And the longer the flight the slower the clock ticks...

Thats a long time to be in a tight seat (even with an uber space aged design)

 

[moa999]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Which is precisely what QF has failed to do.

They've given everyone another inch versus the 380.

There was simply no way that QF were going to do 2x4x2 when every other airline in the world, including many premium ones (excluding JAL and ANA) are 3x3x3

Personally I think the pitch is much more important than width.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

But the extra inch is just a hyped up way of saying they are going to match the Y seat offering on other long range 787 like UA . Other airlines have very similar Y seat config - EK, NZ etc, albeit on 10 across 777 But they are not going to fly the extra long range exotic routes that QF suggests. So yes a bit more pitch but a bit less width than the A380 but the same as other airlines flying 10 per row 777 and 9 per row 787.

Hype does not match reality.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I think flights over 15 hours require a bit of a rethink in plane design anyways. Passengers need a bit of space to stretch and walk.

I think would-be passengers need a re-design in their thought process toward ticket prices.
Business class is the standard, with plenty of legroom, adult size portion meals, and comfort.

Economy class is only a seat, and with restricted space comes trade-offs. We can't seriously expect airlines to make the economy experience amazing.
It's nicknamed cattle class for a reason.

If airlines had it their way - economy class would disappear, permanently.

 

[juddles]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I love how "seat pitch" is assumed as a universal. It is simply the spacing between rows. Years ago wider seat pitch was the norm, but the seats were also 6-8 inches thick. That is forgotten. So leg room, etc was no better. But that may not suit all those that just want to demand more and not pay for it....

 

[juddles]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

At the end of the day we have two outcomes:

The first is that the naysayers are somehow more correct than the experts as QF, and the route will die.

The second is that the route will be succesful with the proposed seating.

If it dies it will only do so because QF makes a loss. IE the product they offer is better than what people pay for it. So in that scenario the pax benefit during a small miscalculation by QF.

If the second option wins (as I suspect it will), then QF have manged to correctly assess the pax numbers and pricing on a route that is fundamentally different. And it allows a new option to all.

Qantas are not stupid, and if they open a route/config, it is because they have a belief it will be succesful. Armchair warriors aside.

 

[Austman]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I love how "seat pitch" is assumed as a universal. It is simply the spacing between rows. Years ago wider seat pitch was the norm, but the seats were also 6-8 inches thick. That is forgotten. So leg room, etc was no better.

Yes, seat pitch is (or should be) the measurement from one point on a seat to the same point on the next (or previous) seat. So you might have needed a 34" pitch with thick seats to have to same leg room as a 32" pitch with thin seats.

Qantas touted their thinner Y class seats, but with 31" pitch, as giving generous room.

 

[harvyk]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I think would-be passengers need a re-design in their thought process toward ticket prices.
Business class is the standard, with plenty of legroom, adult size portion meals, and comfort.

Economy class is only a seat, and with restricted space comes trade-offs. We can't seriously expect airlines to make the economy experience amazing.
It's nicknamed cattle class for a reason.

Disagree 100%, Business class is not the standard!
Very few people can afford the cost of international business. Let's say that you where flying as a couple on a SYD-LHR return (and didn't care on carrier, and weren't an AFFer as most flyers are not), you are looking at say $10,000 at a minimum to do that flight. The vast vast vast majority can not afford that price. In fact it was with the introduction of economy that made air travel accessible to the masses.
Business class may be one of the area's the airlines do battle, but it's not the standard.

If airlines had it their way - economy class would disappear, permanently.

So that's why we're seeing all these LCC's that are no longer offering anything less that PE? Oh right, we're not, we're seeing former full service carriers now offering the LCC on all Y configuration aircraft.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

They've given everyone another inch versus the 380.

There was simply no way that QF were going to do 2x4x2 when every other airline in the world, including many premium ones (excluding JAL and ANA) are 3x3x3

Personally I think the pitch is much more important than width.

Wasn't it pointed out that a 2-4-2 configuration would only mean the removal of 16 or 18 seats? I appreciate that every seat counts for revenue purposes, but if QF doesn't want itself subject to bad publicity, going for the JAL-ANA configuration might have been a smart move.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Qantas are not stupid, and if they open a route/config, it is because they have a belief it will be succesful.

QF may or may not be 'stupid', but the company is not 'infallible'. It isn't God!

It can and has made arguable mistakes, such as failing to go for 777s, or withdrawing, as JohnPhelan and others have repeatedly pointed out, two B747s that could have been retained to be spares, having been fully depreciated (although there would be a daily cost to retaining them).

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I think would-be passengers need a re-design in their thought process toward ticket prices.
Business class is the standard, with plenty of legroom, adult size portion meals, and comfort.

Economy class is only a seat, and with restricted space comes trade-offs. We can't seriously expect airlines to make the economy experience amazing.
It's nicknamed cattle class for a reason.

If airlines had it their way - economy class would disappear, permanently.

Business class is the standard?. Economy class would dissapear if airlines had it their way?
one of the busiest routes SYD-MEL has 12J and 162Y. Some of the J occupants would be award. Not a standard - just another cabin. i remember an all business cabin carrier tried to set up shop. I think they folded. The Singair ultra long haul to EWR gave up due to fuel prices not being supported by the highly premium cabins. And of course the rise and rise of the worlds LCC.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Wasn't it pointed out that a 2-4-2 configuration would only mean the removal of 16 or 18 seats? I appreciate that every seat counts for revenue purposes, but if QF doesn't want itself subject to bad publicity, going for the JAL-ANA configuration might have been a smart move.

yes a 2-4-2 will reduce Y seats by 16 which is about 10%.
estimated weight removed 16x80kg bodyweight + 16 bags at 30kg = 1.7 tons.