Qantas' Impending Change to Tokyo Flight Schedule

[elanshin]

Unless pax wanted a Japan stopover, its not a compelling routing to Europe at the moment with the closure of Russian airspace.

People do want Japan. We probably have record numbers going to Japan right now. So a Tokyo stopover for a day or two is likely an appealing option for those that want to break up the journey and don't want SIN again.

 

[jpp42]

Unless pax wanted a Japan stopover, its not a compelling routing to Europe at the moment with the closure of Russian airspace.

Not sure if you're aware, but in 2024 Japan was Australia's biggest third biggest overseas destination for leisure, beating out UK and US for that slot and approaching NZ depending on if you remove family visits from the stats (Indonesia kept its top spot). So you can bet Qantas is finding plenty of demand for Japan stopovers.

I personally used this route recently, we used JL to FRA as part of a OWA - yes a longer route avoiding Russia but it still works. I guess the AF codeshare wouldn't work on an OWA but it is still good to have more options for QFF members in general.

 

[justinbrett]

I’ve got 2x DONE4s booked ex-HND this year. Almost the price of one ex-SYD.

 

[fifthfre]

Hi all, for those travelling on the 06:55am departure from HND, ie qf26, what lounge have you been offered since none of the JALs are open

 

[markis10]

Hi all, for those travelling on the 06:55am departure from HND, ie qf26, what lounge have you been offered since none of the JALs are open

JAL lounges start opening at 6

 

[logicallysynced]

JAL lounges start opening at 6

Boarding would be before that

 

[markis10]

Boarding would be before that

They board lounge pax at 0630 in my experience

 

[Aeryn]

Hi all, for those travelling on the 06:55am departure from HND, ie qf26, what lounge have you been offered since none of the JALs are open

We flew qf26 earlier this month and were given passes to the TIAT lounge, it opens from 1am; it was very underwhelming. Food options were some tiny pastries, noodles, fried chicken and fruit. No real coffee, didn't pay attention to the booze as my brain just wanted a coffee.

Warning if you want a barista made coffee before QF26, buy it before security, Dean & Deluca should be open. There was no where selling barista coffee inside T3 between 4:45am and 6:25 am when we boarded, not even a Starbucks.

FYI J boarding was called at 6:20am.

Also apart from 2 duty free stores which had cosmetics and booze, and one noodle place no other shops were open until 6am. At 6am the souvenir shop opened and we were finally able to spend all the shrapnel coins we had accumulated and our pasmo balance on our way to the gate.

ETA:

• The Pasmo office that does refunds at station didn't open until 6:30am, if you want cash back be sure to cash out the night before
• The duty free stores post security do not take Pasmo, Souvenir shop does
• We departed on a Sunday I do not know if opening hours are better on weekdays

 

[logicallysynced]

After reading through this entire thread, it seems there is speculation (albeit somewhat informed) that QF might change QF26 back to an evening flight before Nov 30th 2025.

That would be a much nicer departure time, but given some of the apparent delays and uncertainties, do we think that change is still likely at this point?

 

[elanshin]

After reading through this entire thread, it seems there is speculation (albeit somewhat informed) that QF might change QF26 back to an evening flight before Nov 30th 2025.

That would be a much nicer departure time, but given some of the apparent delays and uncertainties, do we think that change is still likely at this point?

They will need to change to run 3 HND services at some point (2 evening departures and one morning). Whilst they applied for it to be MEL/SYD/BNE for each, theres no necessary requirement for them to eventually run those cities as basically there's no challenge for the Australian slot.

On that same point that would mean theres also no rush for QF to implement the change. Just eventually when it suits them.

 

[Mqrko]

Has anyone tried to get the first train to arrive at Haneda airport for QF26 or is taxi a better choice?

 

[Aeryn]

Has anyone tried to get the first train to arrive at Haneda airport for QF26 or is taxi a better choice?

IMO best choice is to spend last night at an airport hotel which is either walking distance or a free shuttle ride away, next best is a Taxi/Uber. A lot of the metro lines dont start running until 6am too late.

We stayed at Mercure Haneda Airport on our last night. They have a free shuttle to the airport, one at 4am, 4:30am and 5am - that get you to departures in 20 mins.

Day before QF26 we checked out of our Tokyo hotel, had them store our luggage spent the day exploring Tokyo, then after an early dinner collected our bags, took monorail to HND T1, free shuttle to the hotel, free drink, too few hours sleep and free shuttle back to HND T3.

We took the 4am shuttle but given how few shops were open and poor lounge on offer I think 4:30, possibly even the 5am would have been fine.

 

[elanshin]

Has anyone tried to get the first train to arrive at Haneda airport for QF26 or is taxi a better choice?

If its the 06:50 departure (every so often its an 0815 departure), the first train would be uncomfortably close for check in closing to make it. You would in theory get to Haneda airport terminal station around 5:30 and have less than 20mins before check in fully closes for bag drop to go from train platform to check in.

Staying overnight at the airport (or nearby with an airport shuttle) has been my go to for this flight. We essentially plan it almost as if we depart the night before, but we're just going to a hotel instead.

You can take a taxi or shuttle but the cost generally meant its either cheaper to stay at a nearby hotel or about on par if you stay at villa Fontaine / park Royale at HND.

 

[evanb]

They will need to change to run 3 HND services at some point (2 evening departures and one morning). Whilst they applied for it to be MEL/SYD/BNE for each, theres no necessary requirement for them to eventually run those cities as basically there's no challenge for the Australian slot.

On that same point that would mean theres also no rush for QF to implement the change. Just eventually when it suits them.

I'd disagree with this assessment. The slots don't belong to Australia per se. Japan has agreed to allow Australian carriers access to three slot pairs at Haneda on the basis of reciprocity with Japanese carriers. However, Australian carriers must still apply for and maintain the specific slots through the normal slot allocation process. All IASC does is decide who gets the right to utilise those slots. Non-utilisation under the regular Haneda slot rules will result in the specific slots being lost back to the pool and the airline would have to reapply for a new slot pair, possibly at a different time.

More concerningly is that the right to those slots aren't guaranteed. Qantas highlighted this in their initial application for the rights to IASC back in 2019: "Any potential delay to the commencement of services by a carrier applying for capacity or disruption to operations will place these highly valuable slots, future access and the strong, longstanding relationship that Australia maintains with Japan at risk. This could set an international precedent which negatively impacts Australia’s prospects or leverage in negotiations on future access with Japan or more broadly with other strategic partners."

It led to the IASC asking the department for legal advice on the matter. The department's advice on the matter was that an unutilised slot "would ultimately be a decision for the Japanese authorities". While no other Australian carrier could substantially challenge them for the right to the slot, Qantas can certainly lose access to their allocated slots and Australia could lose the right to their 3rd slot. Furthermore, non-utilisation would de facto undermine further access to Haneda slots.

 

[elanshin]

I'd disagree with this assessment. The slots don't belong to Australia per se. Japan has agreed to allow Australian carriers access to three slot pairs at Haneda on the basis of reciprocity with Japanese carriers. However, Australian carriers must still apply for and maintain the specific slots through the normal slot allocation process. All IASC does is decide who gets the right to utilise those slots. Non-utilisation under the regular Haneda slot rules will result in the specific slots being lost back to the pool and the airline would have to reapply for a new slot pair, possibly at a different time.

More concerningly is that the right to those slots aren't guaranteed. Qantas highlighted this in their initial application for the rights to IASC back in 2019: "Any potential delay to the commencement of services by a carrier applying for capacity or disruption to operations will place these highly valuable slots, future access and the strong, longstanding relationship that Australia maintains with Japan at risk. This could set an international precedent which negatively impacts Australia’s prospects or leverage in negotiations on future access with Japan or more broadly with other strategic partners."

It led to the IASC asking the department for legal advice on the matter. The department's advice on the matter was that an unutilised slot "would ultimately be a decision for the Japanese authorities". While no other Australian carrier could substantially challenge them for the right to the slot, Qantas can certainly lose access to their allocated slots and Australia could lose the right to their 3rd slot. Furthermore, non-utilisation would de facto undermine further access to Haneda slots.

I think this is being a bit pedantic. IF at any point the Japanese authorities start to give a "use it or lose it" message, you'll see a very immediate response. I replied in the context that theres no pressure right now for QF to make any imminent changes because from the IASC side there is no challenger to the slot and as a result, QF are taking their time to figure out what they want to do.

The Japanese side is also not going to yank the slot out of nowhere (their own carriers are utilising the slot) and that doesnt even go into the geo-politics of such a slot and the storm that it would create politically.

Effectively whilst what you described here is technically correct in the consequences of not utilising the slot in the long run, the realities of it even close to occuring is very close to zero percent chance.

 

[sevenfourtyseven]

Looks like this got missed.
QF asked IASC to alter their existing Japan allocations to allow joint services with AY and AF.
Looking at the actual letter from QF, they are asking for codeshare rights AY/AF AU-TYO and QF TYO-HEL/CDG to start from end of may or "as soon as approved"

Looks like further a request to add El Al too.

"it is proposed that EL AL will code share on Qantas operated services between Australia and Tokyo (Haneda and Narita). Qantas plans to place its code on EL AL Airlines operated Tokyo (Narita)-Tel Aviv flights."

https://www.iasc.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/20250520-qf-letter-to-the-iasc-japan-ly-002.pdf

 

[Aeryn]

Whilst the crazy early departure isn't fun and the original 8:15am slot was much more palatable, the big advantage of QF26 especially for those flying in economy is that it is a day flight so no need to try and sleep and you get back home on the same day.

The overnight flights are fine if you are in business and can sleep, but if in economy you board exhausted having already been up and about for a full day, and then face another 11 hours wide awake seated, before arriving too late and too tired to go to work so have to take another day off work.

I for one would be happy to see QF keep a morning departure. It is a point of difference.

 

[Himeno]

Japan allocated the slots to Australia on the basis that Japanese carriers would have an equal amount of slots at HND to fly to Australia. The slots allocated to other countries are assigned out to that nations own airlines by the local agency that handles such things, IASC in the case of Australia.
Other nations are able to revoke slots assigned to their own carriers in what ever manner that nation decides, as has been done a number of times to US carriers by the DOT, or the VA example.
Japan isn't about to just revoke one of the Australian HND slots because it isn't being used, because that would impact their own carriers. If Japan was to remove one of the Australian slots, they would also have to strip ANA or JAL of one of the Australian slots, reassign that slot to some other country and encourage ANA or JAL to fly to that new country.

The HND slots, as assigned by Japan, are just permissions for airlines of the assigned nation to fly to HND within the period of time each day that each slot is group in (night period or day period). They aren't set times of arrival/departure. It isn't a "depart at 0655" slot, it's a "depart between 0600 and 2200" slot. To get a more precise runway time, which the governments involved have little to do with directly, the airline has to go through the normal seasonal slot coordination process.
I'm sure that QF would love to have departure times of 2130, 2145 and 2200 for 3 HND flights, but they haven't been able to get that (not helped by needing a 4th aircraft for such times due to the early morning arrival for one flight having to arrive before 6am).