Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Melburnian1]

Although the Thursday 23 March 2017 transcontinental B744 on QF12 was punctual - departing JFK a minute early at 1759 and arriving LAX 26 minutes ahead of schedule at 2029 - the same cannot be said for the 'second sector' (albeit not the same aircraft, as latter is normally an A388) with QF12 delayed by an expected two hours in its departure to 0030 on Friday 24 March. SYD Saturday 25 arrival is forecast as 0900 hours, 90 minutes tardy.

QF63 on Thursday 23 March departed from SYD at 1148 but extremely unusually diverted to Durban (DUR - embarrassingly an airport code that I had to look up.) It spent from 1620 to 1814 there, arriving JNB at 1921, 166 minutes late.

It then formed QF64 which departed JNB at 2226 hours, 215 minutes tardy (B744 VH-OJT), so arrival in SYD on Friday 24 (today) is predicted as 1855, 200 minutes tardy. It then may be forming QF25 to HND that touch wood should depart on time.

 

[Melburnian1]

The Wednesday 22 March QF2 departure from LHR (A388 VH-OQE) that has been stuck for more than 24 hours in DXB due to what AFF member milehighclub kindly advised was mechanical issues was meant to depart DXB (local time) at 1105 on Friday 24 March (1805 AEDT) but is showing as further delayed to a 1230 hours DXB departure. However it is almost 1300 hours in DXB as I type.

This means a post 0900 hours arrival in SYD on Saturday 25 March, more than 26 hours late.

Because of the lengthy turnaround for QF1 (0630 to 1645 hours in SYD), provided nothing else requires fixing, this delay should not affect timekeeping of any of the scheduled A388 QF flights ex SYD on Saturday.

UPDATE: The day late QF2 departed DXB at 1315 hours on Friday 24 with SYD arrival at 1005 on Saturday 25 March, 27 hours and 35 minutes late.

The Thursday 23 March QF2 ex LHR arrived DXB at 0753 hours on Friday 24, only eight minutes late but did not depart until 1108, 93 late. As a result, arrival on Saturday 25 is predicted at 0820, 110 minutes tardy but ahead of the QF2 that departed LHR 24 hours prior.

QF467 (Friday 24 1930 hours SYD - MEL that took off at 2034 - A332 VH-EBC) should arrive at 2153, 48 minutes behind schedule.

 

[Fatcat]

In addition to the overnight 18 hour delay to QF1 (which should instead depart in about an hour from SYD at 1130 on Friday 3 March) and a smaller three hour anticipated delay to Friday's QF10 ex LHR, the Friday 3 March 2045 hours evening LHR - DXB - SYD QF2 has now been delayed until an expected 0830 hours ex LHR on Saturday 4 March. This means a forecast 1740 hours Sunday 5 March SYD arrival instead of 0630 hours.

That may answer my earlier question above about whether QF2 would be allowed to depart from LHR at say 0220 hours in the restricted time between 2300 and 0600 hours. Crew availability - have they had sufficient rest - might also come into play.

Tuesdays and Wednesdays are from memory the days when the A388 and B744 schedules of QF typically have spare 'equipment' so delays may continue for passengers booked on QF A388s until then.

Notably thus far QF is not recovering from these delays by short terminating one of its LHR-bound flights at DXB, a previously employed strategy. QF1 and QF2 are typically better loaded than QF9 and QF10 so that may have something to do with it.

Once again, if passengers can inform us in which hotels they are accommodated due to these delays that would be great information.

One hates to think of how many passengers - it would have to be at least in the high 10s on each flight - who as a result of a 12 or 18 hour late flight miss connections (and some who choose to or must leave travel until the last moment will miss or be badly late for important funerals, weddings and business meetings, but hopefully not cruise ships as the latter should ideally see passengers building in a buffer.)

The unknown is whether on its unprofitable LHR routes some of the more 'valuable' passengers in F and J experience a couple of these long delays and eventually switch to SQ, CX or another more reliable airline (which has the added benefit of not having to transit through Middle Eastern airports.) It may depend on how wedded individuals are to QF points and SCs, and whether they view KrisFlyer or Asia Miles as worthy substiutes.

I was on QF1 on March 2/3, in F. Apparently there were no avail seats on other airlines that night so most if not all pax had to cop it.

Accommodation in Sydney was the Pullman Airport (with $50 credit), with two cabcharges. AFAIK all passengers were offered accom, the $50 hotel credit and cab charges, but most just went home - with all their luggage.

On arrival in London at around 1.30am March 4, there were buses waiting and ground staff marshaling peeps onto them for transfers to their hotels (not sure what other hotels they were) which QF provided for transiting passengers.

I was originally scheduled to depart at 7.50am on a BA flight (which they wouldnt or couldnt confirm till we actually landed in LHR) and they booked me a room at the Sofitel Heathrow. Not sure if there was any hotel credit etc as I didnt take up the offer since I had to make my own arrangement to Gatwick and take a different flight to the 2nd destination on my itinerary due to the extended delay. No help from QF. Got offered 10k pts for the delay, and a claim that it was due to factors beyond their control. Apparently QF arent responsible for maintenance issues on their own planes.

I wont be flying QF 1/2/9/10 again. Have done so once a year for the past 3 years, and every single journey there has been an extended delay.

 

[Melburnian1]

I was on QF1 on March 2/3, in F....since I had to make my own arrangement to Gatwick and take a different flight to the 2nd destination on my itinerary due to the extended delay. No help from QF. Got offered 10k pts for the delay, and a claim that it was due to factors beyond their control. Apparently QF arent responsible for maintenance issues on their own planes.

I wont be flying QF 1/2/9/10 again. Have done so once a year for the past 3 years, and every single journey there has been an extended delay.

Fatcat, many thanks - great report.

This is the nub of the problem for QF on its lossmaking (as acknowledged by AJ) London routes: passengers who are on tight itineraries (businessmen, those attending funerals, connecting to cruises among others) can be 'once bitten, twice shy.'

QF9/QF10 are worse than QF1/QF2 for delays. It may be one of a few reasons why if QF cancels 'the 9' and 'the 10' upon commencement of the MEL - PER - LHR and return B789 flights that capacity has effectively been cut in half on the MEL - LHR route.

Many passengers may not contribute to AFF but they can read, and get to know that airlines like SQ have a far better timekeeping record between MEL and LHR than QF9 or its return QF10. To cap it all off, travelling via Asia is more interesting and vastly culturally more a fit with Australians than the Middle East.

Fatcat may have been unlucky on his 'random' journeys to have suffered a delay every time, but his experience shows that there are delays too often. I assume that Fatcat travelled in a reasonable range of seasons (not all travel was in the depths of a London winter or in months when Arabian sandstorms or fog proliferate.)

One must doubt that there were NO available seats on other airlines. It sounds like a profit-maximising decision by QF (who after all is or should be accountable to shareholders) to not pay other airlines for transporting stranded QF passengers.

AFF member Quickstatus has previously raised the question as to whether the MEL (minimum equipment list) on QF is more stringent than on competing major airlines.

Some delays are not an airline's fault but there is a basic expectation that transport operators properly maintain their rollingstock or equipment. After all, Fatcat has paid (or had paid for him) big bucks to travel in F.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Anyone on the delayed QF2 with engineering works in DXB - if you originated in London (didn't join the flight in DXB) I'd write to the airline asking for your €600 compensation. You may not be successful, but can't hurt to try. According to other reports the Christmas/New years plane swap in DXB has has success with claiming compensation.

 

[moa999]

Where did AJ say LHR routes were loss-making??

 

[Himeno]

Apparently QF arent responsible for maintenance issues on their own planes.

That's what BA claimed to me when they refused my EU261 claim when their delay and aircraft change lead to a 25 hour delay in arriving at my destination.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...and a claim that it was due to factors beyond their control. Apparently QF arent responsible for maintenance issues on their own planes.

With the exception of weather (partial exemption) and ATC - 'factors beyond control' doesn't normally absolve the airline from an EU261 liability. Maintenance by a third party would certainly be considered within the control of the airline.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Saturday 25 March, QF19, the 1225 SYD - MNL has been delayed in its departure until 1315.

 

[Melburnian1]

Where did AJ say LHR routes were loss-making??

This is the closest I could find with a quick search:

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce admits London route is “a challenge” | Australian Aviation

AJ's refusal to say the route is profitable and to instead call it a 'challenge' is code!

 

[Melburnian1]

Due to winds gusting to 35 knots, thunderstorms and rain, there has been a lot of holding at and some diversions from DXB. The Friday 24 March 2017 QF2 from LHR arrived DXB at 0836, 51 minutes late on Saturday 25 after departing LHR four early at 2041.

Departure from DXB was 72 minutes late at 1047 meaning a projected Sunday 26 March arrival in SYD at 0735, 65 minutes tardy.

The Friday 24 QF9 from MEL (A388 VH-OQA) departed just 12 minutes late at 2337 but diverted to MCT, arriving there today (25 March) at 0805. It appears to have been cancelled from DXB to LHR. It was indicated as timetabled (diversion) to depart from MCT at 0940 hours local time but appears to be still there at almost 1300 local (2000 AEDT.)

Perhaps some kind passenger on board QF9 could fill us in. The crew may well now be out of hours.

On Saturday 25 March, QF2 (showing as a new departure time ex LHR of 2030) has been cancelled between LHR and DXB. A few passengers may be on QF10 today or EK flights. Reports would be welcome.

UPDATE: As at 1347 hours lcoal time (2047 AEDT), QF9 (VH-OQA) was still on the ground at MCT. If the crew is out of hours would they go to rest in Oman or catch another flight to DXB and rest there, or (despite the disruption it may cause to rosters) would a fresh crew simply fly in from DXB and shepherd the plane from MCT to DXB?

 

[Quickstatus]

Thunderstorms = lightning ? Causing delays at the ramp?

 

[Melburnian1]

On Saturday 25 March 2017, QF20 departed MNL 32 minutes late at 1932. Sunday 26 arrival in SYD is estimated as 50 late at 0655 hours.

A388 VH-OQA on the beleaguered QF9 remains on the ground at MCT as at 2315 hours AEDT (1615 hours local time in Oman.) I hope passengers are in hotels (notwithstanding immigration difficulties?) rather than just in the transit lounge or heaven forbid still on the aircraft. A look at the FR24 flight routing shows that QF9 did many racetrack circuits in a hold not far from DXB before diverting to MCT. Frustrating for all on board and expensive for any airline.

 

[Simo]

Re: QF9 MEL - DXB - LHR delayed 16 hours

There is going to be some delays and cancelled flights coming up in NQ and FNQ due TC Debbie

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: QF9 MEL - DXB - LHR delayed 16 hours

As at 0145 hours local time on Sunday 26 March (0745 hours AEDT), A388 VH-OQA remains in MCT. QF9 is showing as departing MCT at 1730 hours on Sunday 26 (today) for an 1810 arrival in DXB.

Not only was the Saturday night QF2 (25 March) cancelled between LHR and DXB, but its scheduled 0915 hours (new time - used to be 0935) departure from DXB has become 1930 tonight (which if formed by the 1810 arrival from MCT is over optimistic given the minimum A380 turnaround observed of about 95 minutes), with SYD arrival suggested as 1625 hours on Monday 27 March instead of the new permanent time of 0610 hours (used to be 0630.) Unless the Monday 27 QF11 turns into a B744, this may mean that QF1 ex SYD on Monday 27 is delayed.

QF36 from SIN to MEL (A333 VH-QPA) is arriving at 0854 instead of 0615 hours on Sunday 26.

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: QF9 MEL - DXB - LHR delayed 16 hours

Also on Sunday 26 March, QF117 - the 'second' flight from SYD to HKG- has been delayed in its departure from 1300 hours to 1400 hours

 

[JessicaTam]

Fatcat, many thanks - great report.

This is the nub of the problem for QF on its lossmaking (as acknowledged by AJ) London routes: passengers who are on tight itineraries (businessmen, those attending funerals, connecting to cruises among others) can be 'once bitten, twice shy.'

What about businesswomen? :shock:

 

[kermatu]

What about businesswomen? :shock:

Too smart to fly QF!

I hadn't heard the London flights lost money. Interesting, and I guess not that surprising.

 

[Melburnian1]

...I hadn't heard the London flights lost money. Interesting, and I guess not that surprising.

Yes, Y yields are low for through passengers (MEL or SYD to LHR or v.v.) as AJ implied with his comment about 'competition' but more importantly QF operating costs must be very high compared to airlines like SQ.

I was still a tad surprised because when I've been on these QF flights, the many fifth freedom passengers who for instance travel between LHR and DXB should - in theory - help to bump up yields per seat kilometre a bit.

Clearly on an annual basis loadings are higher on the Sydney route than the Melbourne route. When the MEL - PER - LHR route starts (assuming QF9 and QF10 via DXB are cancelled), seat capacity will be cut by around 50 per cent which to me says it all.

UPDATE: The anticipated delay of an hour on Sunday 26 March to QF117 became a cancellation. The timetabled 2140 hours HKG - MEL QF118 has also been cancelled.

 

[Flyerqf]

QF37 and QF117 and their return sectors are both cancelled today.