Qantas Club Price Rise

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acampbel said:
Ahhh..... now we get down to the real story. So you want people who actually pay for lounge membership to get a second-class facility, whereas pseudo-elites like yourself (most of whom achieve status on the back of travel paid for by their company) think themselves worthy of a "First Class" experience.

You said it better than I could have Andrew. ;)

I maybe wouldn't generalise as much - though you summed the point up very succintly. The AFF 'status-ed' members I have met have been pleasant, generous with their knowledge, and 'non-elitist', and I know that others who are regular contributors here are the same, but there is certainly an element of 'elitism' that shows up sometimes on this board (and over at FT), and as you state, likely from flyers who obtained status via employer-funded travel.
 
UpTheFront said:
Nothing "Humble" about your "Opinion" here UpTheFront.

UpTheFront said:
"true" airport lounges
As opposed to the "false" ones? You may need to define "lounge" rather than whether it exists.

UpTheFront said:
economy travellers who rarely fly should have their own separate lounge.
They do. It's called a gate.

It's funny how some first class passengers can be economy class people....and vice-versa.
 
I don't mind who uses the lounge as long as they:

1) are quiet and well-behaved
2) don't run around
3) don't use the mobile phone in the 'no mobile phone' zone
4) don't take 30 pieces of hot food
5) make mess of the food generally
6) aren't behaving rudely

although I would prefer the lounge to be quiet and being able to find a seat.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing more 'single seat' or 'pair of seats' arrangements in the lounge rather than 4-seat+ arrangements. There are lots of solo/pair travellers and often those spare seats get wasted.
 
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At the most basic level, it is clear that the currently available space is insufficient for the number of travellers who have legitimate access to the QP.

The solution is either to increase the space OR reduce the access (or both, for that matter).

Fortunately - given the arguments that would ensue on this board - Qantas have elected in the short-term to do the former, by creating a separate J/WP lounge.
 
tuapekastar said:
there is certainly an element of 'elitism' that shows up sometimes on this board (and over at FT), and as you state, likely from flyers who obtained status via employer-funded travel.

Umm - why is employer funded travel less special than personally funded travel? In terms of elitism I more often get elitist remarks from people who look down on employer funded travel as a means to get status.
 
UpTheFront said:
Perhaps Qantas could downgrade QC lounges into something more like Priority Pass and send only paid QC members there. Then, open up their First class lounges for Sapphires & J pax. (I'm sure the F pax would whinge but the greater good would be achieved, and the airline's real bread-&-butter profit-payers -- J class -- would be delighted.)

Hmm...? :D

Pffffft.:rolleyes:

First Class lounge - First Class and CL pax only

Business Lounge - Business Class and WP's only

Qantas Club lounges - SG's and paid members.

And there you have it, everyone's happy.

If J passengers wish to use the Flounge, they should upgrade to F - how they do that is not my problem.
 
I have this gut feeling that by December, Qantas are going to announce changes to thier FF program that will make SG/WP (esp WP) status far harder to attain.

Their current plans to have two domestic lounges at the three largest Oz airports and the expensive new First Class lounges (with WP/EMD access) give me the vibe that significant changes will be need to to recoup costs.
 
acampbel said:
What's rarely? Less than you, perchance? ...you want people who actually pay for lounge membership to get a second-class facility, whereas pseudo-elites like yourself (most of whom achieve status on the back of travel paid for by their company) think themselves worthy of a "First Class" experience.
Perhaps I should have been clearer. "Flying rarely" isn't defined by me, but by the airlines. In the context of oneworld lounge access, sapphire is usually the defining point. In the years when I don't make sapphire, I don't grumble about being excluded by "pseudo-elites": shock horror, I hang out in the terminal along with the rest of the world.

I wasn't aware of Qantas's new J lounges, but it sounds like they're on my page and are one step ahead of us. I assumed there wouldn't be the money or airport space for three QF lounges per terminal so I thought they'd have to combine F & J facilities... but if they can make each lounge more specific then all the better. This seems like a good solution as QCs have become way too crowded.

As for "elitism", let's face it, there is something intrinsically elitist about retiring to the comfort of an exclusive members' club for drinks and nibblies while the great unwashed grow old at the gate. Once we establish that, then we can have a rational discussion about which lounges should offer what, and to whom, without making ad hominem attacks.

If an airline wants to create an exclusive, peaceful haven for: a) premium class travellers, and b) loyal frequent economy travellers, then it causes itself a problem when it sells memberships for cash, simply because lounges become more overcrowded and underresourced. That's all.

No one is suggesting that frequent travellers are somehow "better" or "worse" than non-travellers. But they are the airline's bread-&-butter, and as such it's legitimate for airlines to give them special benefits like uncluttered lounges.

So the problem is not elitism versus anti-elitism; it's that the airline's profit motive in flogging off lounge memberships conflicts with its desire to pamper those frequent travellers who keep the airline in the sky.

And if it's elitist of airlines to give free perks to their most valued customers, surely it's no less elitist of infrequent travellers to coat-tail on that booty using cash. It's a bit contrived to hear any member of an exclusive club play the proletarian anti-elitist card. If you don't like elitism, go to the gate.

And I don't know why this is relevant, but since there seems to be such antipathy towards nasty old "employer-funded travel"... I have never received employer-funded travel and only ever get lounge access because I fly a lot out of my own pocket. That shouldn't matter in the least, but it's the airline, not I, who labels frequent travellers "elite". If that's the crime, then guilty as charged, your honour, guilty as charged... :rolleyes:
 
I agree with your comments, UpTheFront, on having separate lounges, but I dont understand why you suggested that QC members should have their lounge facilities downgraded to Priority Pass standards.

I am QF Gold atm, but I think if someone has paid for lounge membership then they are entitled to a good service, albeit in a different lounge to frequent travellers.
 
I think part of the criticism of the paid QF membership is that it can be obtained so cheaply. WP/SG status costs a lot of money and I guess people want a better return on their investment.
 
simongr said:
I think part of the criticism of the paid QF membership is that it can be obtained so cheaply. WP/SG status costs a lot of money and I guess people want a better return on their investment.

Yes and also, at the risk of being branded elitest, J class flights cost a lot of money and the 'experience' (which seems to be an increasing mantra with airlines) is negatively impacted by the current QC arrangements whereby access is no longer the exclusive domain of those who apparently mean the most to the airline.

I have heard from CL members that they really appreciate the quiet, reserved confines of their lounge compared with the loud, crowded, mobile phone using, food queueing experience of the QC. I am hoping the new J class lounges will address this issue.
 
I can see how the QP are now overloaded due to people (such as myself) being able to purchase QP memberships........ but a pax paying big $$$ on J or F tickets should remember that when they finally board the plane first, sit back and relax, they won't ever be thinking "oh no, big person next to me or oh no, careless person in front is going to recline all the way back" as what I think of all the time when I sit at the back in Y!

I can see the theory how a J pax or SG/WP pax would be a bit aggrieved as the purchase of a QP memebership is so readily available, leading to overcrowding and that they lose their enjoyment over the QP visit.
 
If anything one could reasonably argue that the paid lounge facilities should be of a higher standard to those offered to those who get status. Those with paid lounge membership have paid for the lounge rather than being freeloaders with complimentary access. Perhaps people would be happier to remove domestic lounge access to those with status ( as done by AA for example ) so that it isnt overrun with freeloaders

It seems that people wanting restrictions want to change them such that they themselves still have access but less others do

There are a lot with status who pay a lot less to QF in a year due to their flying being subsidised by companies; perhaps they should change it so that only personally funded flying counts towards personal status and perhaps make it directly related to $ spent on QF ( much more egaliterian .... why should those getting cheap DONE4s ex NRT get status more cheaply than those doing J r/ts SYD-PER

Then again, could just leave it as it is where those with status get access as do those who pay for it

Dave
 
simongr said:
Umm - why is employer funded travel less special than personally funded travel? In terms of elitism I more often get elitist remarks from people who look down on employer funded travel as a means to get status.

I don't think it is - and you certainly didn't hear it from me. :)

Without exploring all the ins and outs, if QF choose to offer paid lounge (QP) membership, as well as lounge (all OW) access to people who fly more often (a quick look at qantas.com didn't reveal the word elite, though it may be there) then so be it. J and F pax are presumably the primary reason the J and F lounges even exist.

I can understand peoples' frustrations with crowded lounges (only been in crowded lounges a couple of times but don't like 'em) and everyone here is perfectly entitled to express an opinion (and be disagreed with) but IMO the problem is not paid QP members (with or without corporate discount), or too many people who fly so much they have 'status', but simply insufficient space provided by QF to cater for all of the above in peak times (so I read).

And its up to QF to resolve this. Which they're making steps towards doing by building new lounges in SYD, MEL and BNE restricted to J pax and WPs.

They could get rid of paid QP membership if they chose as well. But they're not at this stage, and any suggestion of 'downgrading' facilities for paid QP members (just what is a Priority Pass lounge like?), whilst entitled to be made, just wouldn't cut it - if they're downgraded I think people would jump ship so I imagine it would be easier just to cut out paid QP altogether.

And its an interesting point Dave Noble makes re paid vs. status. Status people get lounge access simply because they pay for and use a service (flights) a lot, versus paid QP members who are actually paying for the lounge access and paying for their (less frequent) flights.

I have no issue with people having status, nor with people flying up the front (I've had, and currently have, and intend having a bit more of both). ;)
 
Dave Noble said:
.... why should those getting cheap DONE4s ex NRT get status more cheaply than those doing J r/ts SYD-PER
Don't give QF any ideas;)...that is exactly what SQ have done for PPS qualification - gone from 25 sectors (or 50K miles) per year to S$25000 spent (not including taxes!!) per year travelling only in J or F class:evil:
 
simongr said:
I think part of the criticism of the paid QF membership is that it can be obtained so cheaply. WP/SG status costs a lot of money and I guess people want a better return on their investment.

I wholeheartadly agree, I have no problem with paid QP membership, as I paid for it for many years before getting status, but my issue with it is how cheap it is.

Why is it that Qantas have barely lifted the membership fee and continue to offer corporate rates that devalue the whole lounge experience.

IMO, the best thing they could do is raise the price into the $600 a year mark, ensuring a large number of paid QP's drop out and then put a cap in place with a waiting list rather than taking as many as they can get.

TG
 
kpc said:
Don't give QF any ideas;)...that is exactly what SQ have done for PPS qualification - gone from 25 sectors (or 50K miles) per year to S$25000 spent (not including taxes!!) per year travelling only in J or F class:evil:

Im happy enough as it is. Just that people suggesting that access should be restricted should consider that depending on how it changed, that *they* could be the one that becomes the one no longer getting access to the lounge rather than their aim that they still have access but others don't
Dave
 
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Travel Guru said:
Why is it that Qantas have barely lifted the membership fee and continue to offer corporate rates that devalue the whole lounge experience.
TG

Dare I suggest that corporate rates are used to entice companies to fly with them (Qantas) and part of the total package that comes from having a corporate relationship with a company?

No use having a great contract with the company if the employees don't get any benefit and don't particulary want to use the airline.

Also, for people who have to travel the benefit of lounge access is a 'perk' that compensates for the many, many hours on the road. It is also an officce away from the office for these people and if the lounge wasn't there then the company may have to 'invent' it to get the same level of productivity from their employees.
 
Travel Guru said:
IMO, the best thing they could do is raise the price into the $600 a year mark, ensuring a large number of paid QP's drop out and then put a cap in place with a waiting list rather than taking as many as they can get.

It already is. A standard membership costs $685.00 for the first year, and around $355 for a renewal.
 
I dont think that is a fair comment brettmcg - the issue people have is with discounted corporate rates flooding the QP.
 
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