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Qantas Club Access Denied

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leftrudder

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Joined
Aug 11, 2003
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3
So, let me get this straight ... I book two award flights Melbourne to Bali through Qantas, pay for a fare for our child and get our award tickets duly enclosed in a Qantas-branded cover. We are told that we will flying the MEL-SYD leg on Qantas, then the SYD-DEN leg on Australian Airlines - but relax sir, it's our (Qantas') airline that we use for leisure flights to Bali ...

We are, as usual, grateful that both adults are members of the Qantas Club - you know how it it with pre-dawn departures and hot 3 hour waits at Denpasar with a child in tow ...

And now we find out that we are not permitted to enter the Club during our trip, because it it not a "Qantas" flight.

Rule 10. Access to lounges

10.1 Qantas Club Members and their guests are entitled to access The Qantas Club lounge in the departure port when their next onward flight on that day is with Qantas or a Qantas subsidiary.
What is going on? Are Quantas actually going to claim that they are so much at arm's length from AA that they will happily take our QC fees, book us on a flight they they themselves do not service and then refuse us entry?!

Perhaps someone can explain the thinking here?
 

straitman

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And now we find out that we are not permitted to enter the Club during our trip, because it it not a "Qantas" flight.
:(

Have you tried for a more detailed explaination from QF and QF club? Certainly follow this up and don't give up the first time you don't get the correct answer :!:
 

ejh

Newbie
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Messages
8
qantas club

Although the company is part of qantas the Qc rules say that you are not admitted to the club if you fly with Australian and also you do not get frequent flyer points for non award flights.
 

leftrudder

Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
3
The problem is two sets of conflicting rules ... travel on a Qantas 'subsidiary' and you are OK; travel on AA and you aren't.

In this case, Qantas appears to be trying to claim that AA is a *separate* company, but it seems to me that AA is in fact a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas.

You can't accept bookings for a third party company, give a client Qantas-branded tickets, tell the client that "it's our company" ... then turn around and claim total independence to justify denial of access. That, to me, is opportunistic and petty.

Basically, anyone travelling to Bali using Qantas (and who is bumped to AA) will be denied access to QC using this logic, so presumably any code-share flights will suffer the same fate.
 

sully

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
238
Leftrudder, I can understand your annoyance at being treated in such a high-handed manner. To identify the corporate identity of AA I had a look at the ASIC site which provides some free information on the status of Australian companies. It lists AA separately and refers to it as a public company, but such a status also applies to subsidiaries of public companies. A review of documents lodged with them has a detail of the Annual Notice by Wholly owned Entities and to confirm this a look at the ASX site does not provide you with any reference to it as a separate listed company.

More damning is a review of the Qantas webite where it is stated that AA is indeed a subsidiary. By your reading of the T&Cs it is clear you were dudded.

Good luck in your pursuits but my only concern for you is what you actually expect from them by way of compensation. Access to lounges that you already have?
 
S

shillard

sully said:
More damning is a review of the Qantas webite where it is stated that AA is indeed a subsidiary. By your reading of the T&Cs it is clear you were dudded.

Good luck in your pursuits but my only concern for you is what you actually expect from them by way of compensation. Access to lounges that you already have?

Somewhat less damning is the following:

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/qantasClub/termsConditions#jump9

Specifically sections 4 & 10, and the subsections contained therein.

Interestingly the August QF inflight magazine's blurb on the QF club makes it clear that QF Club Members will not be permitted access if flying on AO (not AA - which is in fact American Airlines).

Under the current T&C, there's nothing saying that QF Club members flying on AO (award or otherwise), are permitted to use the QF Club. The only exception would naturally be Platinum members, who may use the lounge at any time, even when not flying.
 

redrat

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Messages
225
shillard said:
...The only exception would naturally be Platinum members, who may use the lounge at any time, even when not flying.
Hear, hear for PLAT. :D
 

icemann

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
268
Leftrudder, write to them and complain. I've found that if you receive bad service from anywhere, and have a valid case, if the company has actually got it's head screwed on the right way (re : customer service), they will usually do something to ease the pain a little bit.
 
S

shillard

icemann said:
Leftrudder, write to them and complain. I've found that if you receive bad service from anywhere, and have a valid case, if the company has actually got it's head screwed on the right way (re : customer service), they will usually do something to ease the pain a little bit.
But in this case, why should they?

Clearly QF didn't shaft the customer - the customer's expectations were merely unrealistic. If every company tried to accomodate every unrealistic expectation from a customer, nobody would be in business.
 

thadocta

Active Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
757
icemann said:
Leftrudder, write to them and complain. I've found that if you receive bad service from anywhere, and have a valid case, if the company has actually got it's head screwed on the right way (re : customer service), they will usually do something to ease the pain a little bit.
Except he wasn't entitled to lounge access since he was flying on AO, so he hasn't really received bad service.

Dave
 

leftrudder

Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
3
mmmmm ...
getting off the point a little here.
The issue is not bad service, it's denial of service.

I booked a flight to Bali through Qantas, not Australian Airlines. Was given a Qantas-branded ticket. Queried the AO flight numbers, was told that that is 'our' (Qantas') airline. I was never told that "Qantas does not fly to Bali - please contact Australian Airlines". No - the whole transaction was what you would expect from a company using a wholly owned subsidiary to cover a leg or two of an itinerary.

Except that Qantas then does a 180 and says that AO is a totally independent airline and no lounge access is provided for QC members ... yeah, right!

So, someone please tell me ... just who is using the QC in Denpasar? Obviously not Qantas passengers - they're all on Australian Airlines flights and are barred! And in the meantime, Qantas continues to advertise flights to Bali ...

Qantas can't have it both ways - either stop accepting bookings and refer customers to AO, or accept Qantas-branded bookings and honour QC commitments.
 
S

shillard

leftrudder said:
mmmmm ...
getting off the point a little here.
The issue is not bad service, it's denial of service.

So, someone please tell me ... just who is using the QC in Denpasar? Obviously not Qantas passengers - they're all on Australian Airlines flights and are barred! And in the meantime, Qantas continues to advertise flights to Bali ...

Qantas can't have it both ways - either stop accepting bookings and refer customers to AO, or accept Qantas-branded bookings and honour QC commitments.
Nope, not even close. A couple of points:

1) Nothing in your QC mebership terms & conditions says that you are entitled to use the QC when flying AO.

2) It's not a QF Club at Denpesar, there's a couple of lounges shared by various airlines, including QF.

3) Who is using them? Those flying on just about any airline on a J or F ticket, QF Plat/ OW Emerald members flying AO, etc.

4) You are only upset because your expectations differ from what you experienced - this is not QF's problem. It is encumbant on you to be informed about your rights and priviledges as a QC member, and where & when they apply. QF/ AO res agents shouldn't have to spell out every single contingency to every passenger when flights are booked.

5) QF handles bookings for a number of airlines - such as Aeropelican and Brindebella. QF Club members flying on these airlines, even though booked at ticketed through QF, are not entitled to QC access.

Like I said, you're upset, but this isn't really the time for righteous indignation - it just can't be justified.
 

dajop

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Don't know why you're so worried about missing out on an hour or 2 in QC's. I'd be more worried about the points & SC's you won't be getting!
 

michaelblain

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
30
dajop said:
Don't know why you're so worried about missing out on an hour or 2 in QC's. I'd be more worried about the points & SC's you won't be getting!
They were award flights. :wink:

The QC T&C's now read "flying on Qantas or Qantaslink".
 

ozstamps

Active Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
Messages
578
Well spotted.

They must read this board as a few weeks back it clearly stated "or a Qantas subsidiary."
 

petcar

Junior Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
12
Touchy one here,
My experience is that if you complain about QANTAS in writing, and they have your name, for some unknown reason you get a couple of crappy flights as a reward.
Luggage with out priority tags, Missed meals, etc

Maybe a conspiricy theory, but its held up twice so far to me and once to a friend.
 
S

shillard

petcar said:
Touchy one here,
My experience is that if you complain about QANTAS in writing, and they have your name, for some unknown reason you get a couple of crappy flights as a reward.
Luggage with out priority tags, Missed meals, etc

Maybe a conspiricy theory, but its held up twice so far to me and once to a friend.
It's the Lizard men from Atlantis who run the reservations system. They patch your details through to the Greys running Area 51, and from there it's all downhill.

My last FF statement email was full of fnords.
 

xa-coupe

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
22
I must be the only one on Leftrudder's side completely.

I was annoyed enough that when I took a points flight on Cathay I couldn't use the QC but the logic was there. In this case leftrudder got a Qantas ticket. I don't see what there is to discuss.

If Qantas sell a fare as Qantas and not a codeshare or anything like that then you should get at least the basic amenties as if you were actually on a Qantas flight.
 

Mal

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Dec 25, 2004
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This is a four year old thread.

Since the time of the OP's post, the following has happened:

Australian Airlines has pretty much disappeared (ie been brought back into the Qantas name completely, and is just an operating airline for Qantas now).
Jetstar has replaced Australian Airlines as the Qantas low cost international carrier.
Qantas now allows Qantas Club members who are flying on Jetstar access to the Qantas Club.

Qantas have changed things so that the original complaint wouldn't happen today (ie flying Jetstar and being denied access to a Qantas Club (branded) lounge).
 

xa-coupe

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
22
How embarassment .. I clicked on 'todays posts' and it came up. I assumed ( cough ) it was current :oops:
 
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