Qantas caught in Iran plot

[Hvr]

AMERICAN investigators foiled a sophisticated plot to funnel three jumbo jets originally owned by Qantas to Iran, in defiance of strict trade sanctions.


Qantas sold the passenger jets to a company in the Middle East, which hatched the plan to send the planes to Iran.
The planes were shifted between related companies in the United Arab Emirates and the West African country of Gambia over 16 months.


One of the passenger jets - previously called the ''City of Tamworth'' - ended up in Iran in March last year, before US authorities intervened to prevent the other two 747s from joining it there.

Read more: Qantas caught in Iran plot
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The City of Mildura and the City of Geraldton were the other planes involved.

Not sure how complex it is to sell planes but looks like the Qf reputation precedes them for selling good planes.

 

[JessicaTam]

There seems to be quite a distance between QAN and Iran, with a number of middle-men blurring the eventual purchaser.

 

[anat0l]

So is Qantas in really deep water or not?


Either way, the story is sure to bring up a huge brouhaha and plenty of flak against Qantas for supporting the Iranian regime. You know, the regular patriotic, "un-Australian" etc. etc.


The article doesn't really make it clear at all whether Qantas really did its due diligence and simply was the unwitting pawn in a sophisticated scheme, or whether Qantas actually was an active agent in attempting to circumvent the trade sanctions in order to sell those 747s. Given that Qantas wanted to accelerate the retirement of its 747s, one can't help but think there was a sinister scheme to get rid of them as well as net a high price for them...

 

[The Rok]

So is Qantas in really deep water or not?


Either way, the story is sure to bring up a huge brouhaha and plenty of flak against Qantas for supporting the Iranian regime. You know, the regular patriotic, "un-Australian" etc. etc.


The article doesn't really make it clear at all whether Qantas really did its due diligence and simply was the unwitting pawn in a sophisticated scheme, or whether Qantas actually was an active agent in attempting to circumvent the trade sanctions in order to sell those 747s. Given that Qantas wanted to accelerate the retirement of its 747s, one can't help but think there was a sinister scheme to get rid of them as well as net a high price for them...

As Iran is completely land Iocked and basically a desert I see no deep water for QF to be in!

 

[samh004]

While Qantas was eager to sell, I'm sure they don't want to be sanctioned themselves. It is ridiculous though... Iran wants planes and parts so they can continue flying passengers and not worry about falling out if the sky, and the US government blocks Boeing or anyone from helping them fix these passenger planes.

 

[medhead]

I fail to see how qantas is in any trouble. They sold the aircraft in good faith to an allowed buyer. What they did with the aircraft is their problem. I assume the 2 blocked aircraft are not being transferred back to Qantas, are they? If they don't go back to qantas then qantas can't be involved.

As Iran is completely land Iocked and basically a desert I see no deep water for QF to be in!

Funny. Would be more funny if Iran was truely land locked. Unfortunately, it sits right on the Persian gulf, which was water last time I checked. Yes sorry for bringing facts into it.

 

[The Rok]

I fail to see how qantas is in any trouble. They sold the aircraft in good faith to an allowed buyer. What they did with the aircraft is their problem. I assume the 2 blocked aircraft are not being transferred back to Qantas, are they? If they don't go back to qantas then qantas can't be involved.



Funny. Would be more funny if Iran was truely land locked. Unfortunately, it sits right on the Persian gulf, which was water last time I checked. Yes sorry for bringing facts into it.

Note to self, when looking at unfamiliar countries on google maps, ZOOM OUT!

 

[Hvr]

Funny. Would be more funny if Iran was truely land locked. Unfortunately, it sits right on the Persian gulf, which was water last time I checked. Yes sorry for bringing facts into it.

And on the other side of the country is the inland Caspian Sea.

 

[elbarto]

I fail to see how qantas is in any trouble. They sold the aircraft in good faith to an allowed buyer. What they did with the aircraft is their problem. I assume the 2 blocked aircraft are not being transferred back to Qantas, are they? If they don't go back to qantas then qantas can't be involved.

Perhaps Qantas weren't as thorough in their due diligence as they could have been. You would think that if Iran was mentioned then all sorts of red flags would have been raised and Qantas would have (or should have) backed out of the deal. It could all just be coincidence that it's QF aircraft involved and these people would have bought any 747 that suited and we would be talking about how BA/LH/SQ/etc etc are trading planes to Iran.

But you never know do you? how many airlines got caught up in the cargo price fixing scandal?

 

[anat0l]

As Iran is completely land Iocked and basically a desert I see no deep water for QF to be in!

Funny. Would be more funny if Iran was truely land locked. Unfortunately, it sits right on the Persian gulf, which was water last time I checked. Yes sorry for bringing facts into it.

And on the other side of the country is the inland Caspian Sea.

My suggestion to The Rok would've been, "Keep digging".

While Qantas was eager to sell, I'm sure they don't want to be sanctioned themselves. It is ridiculous though... Iran wants planes and parts so they can continue flying passengers and not worry about falling out if the sky, and the US government blocks Boeing or anyone from helping them fix these passenger planes.

I think the US et al. basically treat this as, "too bad, so sad".

Taking the US point of view, if Iran wants safer planes, then they will work towards lifting the sanctions. Failing any effort on this part, it's either fatalities or accidents with the existing aircraft, or slow attrition / shut down of the Iranian aviation industry. Either scenario is a slow increasing grip on the balls, so the sanctioning nations are achieving their objective. Whether or not one can attribute the cost of lives to such an action is a complete another debate.

Are Russia, Brazil and China also within the sanctioning nations? If not, they also make aircraft, IIRC...

Still, going through the approval rigmarole for non-Boeing or non-Airbus planes is a PITA.


Back to the story, even if Qantas could prove it did due diligence, there's always a chance it will be implicated as acting against the sanction. After all, it is quite possible to commit an offence unwittingly, and still be punished for it (even if the punishment is less than that if there was malicious intent). This is especially true if Qantas gets to keep the money from the sale of said aircraft without any inhibitions.

 

[VHOEJ]

I don't see why QF should be worried - it seems it is more a case of the US company were offering a lot less and then the other buyers gave QF a better deal. What that winning bid does with the aircraft is their concern. The US company raised the issue, so they must have offered a lot less and didn't think someone else would offer QF more

 

[mannej]

Are Russia, Brazil and China also within the sanctioning nations? If not, they also make aircraft, IIRC...

Still, going through the approval rigmarole for non-Boeing or non-Airbus planes is a PITA.
.

It is murky water, as if there is a certain amount of American parts on a plane, it'll also fall foul to the restrictions

 

[samh004]

I don't see why QF should be worried - it seems it is more a case of the US company were offering a lot less and then the other buyers gave QF a better deal. What that winning bid does with the aircraft is their concern. The US company raised the issue, so they must have offered a lot less and didn't think someone else would offer QF more

It does seem a little fishy... I certainly wouldn't put it past an American company to run to the feds because they didn't win a deal

So long as there's no paper trail that suggests Qantas knew, there shouldn't be a problem.

Not sure why an Iranian company couldn't have a subsidiary based in another country (or the other way around to fool governments) to fly 747's in and out, as it appears in this case, they weren't keeping the 747 in the country, it was going to fly to BKK. Other countries that aren't sanctioned also fly to Iran with planed the Iranians would like, so simply flying in and out isn't an issue, they just can't be owned by Iran...

 

[Gold Member]

Those naughty Iranians... At least they don't need to develop a ICBM to deliver their supposed enriched uranium weapons - just drop it out of a 747!

 

[samh004]

Those naughty Iranians... At least they don't need to develop a ICBM to deliver their supposed enriched uranium weapons - just drop it out of a 747!

I know you're joking, but I wonder how much work you'd need to do to convert the bottom of a 747 into cargo doors for what you're describing

 

[Gold Member]

Paging jb747​!

 

[medhead]

Perhaps Qantas weren't as thorough in their due diligence as they could have been. You would think that if Iran was mentioned then all sorts of red flags would have been raised and Qantas would have (or should have) backed out of the deal. It could all just be coincidence that it's QF aircraft involved and these people would have bought any 747 that suited and we would be talking about how BA/LH/SQ/etc etc are trading planes to Iran.

But you never know do you? how many airlines got caught up in the cargo price fixing scandal?

The suggestion of due diligence by qantas is pretty funny. If I sell my car am I required to second guess the purchasers intentions. If they "sell" my car onwards via a number of "unrelated" buyers to eventually get it to someone who is going to use the car for a ram raid, is it my problem if they don't tell me about those plans? Do I have to ask them specifically about their full intentions? Or outline every possible scenario of how they might use the car? Or do I sell it in good faith and leave them responsible for how they use the car?

And I'm not even going to get into the politics of this situation except to say the self appointed world police are on a modern day crusade that has a number of strategic flaws

 

[Skyring]

Those naughty Iranians... At least they don't need to develop a ICBM to deliver their supposed enriched uranium weapons - just drop it out of a 747!

No need to drop it - kind a few keensters and train them up enough to take off, cruise and plummet.

 

[Gold Member]

No need to drop it - kind a few keensters and train them up enough to take off, cruise and plummet.

better resale value if you don't crash the plane...

 

[under the radar]

The suggestion of due diligence by qantas is pretty funny. If I sell my car am I required to second guess the purchasers intentions. If they "sell" my car onwards via a number of "unrelated" buyers to eventually get it to someone who is going to use the car for a ram raid, is it my problem if they don't tell me about those plans? Do I have to ask them specifically about their full intentions? Or outline every possible scenario of how they might use the car? Or do I sell it in good faith and leave them responsible for how they use the car?

And I'm not even going to get into the politics of this situation except to say the self appointed world police are on a modern day crusade that has a number of strategic flaws

totally agree...does this mean that when i sell something on ebay/gumtree/etc....I AM RESPONSIBLE/IMPLICATED IN HOW THE BUYER CHOOSES TO USE THAT PRODUCT??? just another example of a media beatup/windup