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Qantas Business Class

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peteQLD

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Why is it that the Qantas business class fares are so much higher than most other airlines ??? i.e. $ 12k vs. $ 5k
Does anyone know ?
 

Evan

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Simple really, they fill most of the seats most of the time at that price !

Of course the fact that some routes are protected and don't have a lot of competition accounts for something, higher operating expenses compared to other airlines (well some anyway) etc.

I guess its a case of charge what the market will tolerate, and if you sell them for that price great for your profit.
If the demand was not there then they would be reduced in cost i would imagine.

How often do you see more than a few seats in business class available on any flight ? Not often for me, actually a lot of flights i have done recently have seen economy full !

Evan
 

ITGUY911

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I have often wondered the same thing but it is true, people seem to be willing to pay a sizable premium to fly Qantas. I myself used to fly Qantas almost exclusively but have become quiet dissilusiond with QF and choose a couple of other airlines and can say that in practise other airlines service in Business is at least as good, and in most cases better. The one advantage QF has is the ability to fly direct out of Brisbane, Sydney to LA. It is a monopoly and not I believe at all fair but this protection does gaurantee them business on this route and Is the only flight I have done with Qantas this year. Open the route and then lets see how they fare with some competition.
 

Evan

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I think everybody would agree the UK/US direct (or direct just 1 stop) are convenient, but they cost a fortune in business class with Qantas

I would never pay that much for a fare return ! (on points maybe), i would always seek other options, but there is not a whole lot of other options....
oneworld explorer (DONE4) or something like that and go around the world ;) costs less as well, some difficulty getting the flights you will want to take, but if your flying for business then direct is probably all you can do.

For Europe there is so many other options out of Singapore/HongKong/Bangkok/etc but for US there is not as much choice. Std fare MEL-SIN-LDH-SIN-MEL is about $12k also and even with the competition they still sell.

Evan

PS. I wont pay too much of a premium but i will still always try to fly oneworld as thats my preference to build status and points only given the limited flying i do. Others will no doubt choose *A or Skywards for the same reason. But still a A* member for those trips that its unavoidable.
 

codash1099

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peteQLD said:
Why is it that the Qantas business class fares are so much higher than most other airlines ??? i.e. $ 12k vs. $ 5k
Does anyone know ?
The real (and simple) answer to all questions like this is "because they can!"
 

Hawkeye

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Joined
Nov 4, 2006
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Even though I love travelling - particularly at someone else's expense:) - I really enjoy stepping back on to a Qantas aircraft for the homeward journey, and having the flight attendants greet you with "G'day" in a broad Aussie accent. Very reassuring to me, and makes me feel like I'm home already.

I think I would be happy to pay the premium simply for that feeling!
 

Evan

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And not being looked at in a funny way when you ask for another drink like they seem to when your on airlines like MH.

QF staff member forgot my drink for about 10, maybe 15 mins, i wasn't worried, but turns up says sorry and hand me 2 drinks ! thats my kinda girl :) Not to mention i have had some quiet fun and interesting converstations in the galley's of QF aircraft when i can't stand sitting down any longer, no chance of that on some airlines !
 

NYCguy

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The QF/UA non-stop trans-pac duopoly is a very nice little earner for both of them, I should imagine. Still, I don't have to lecture the members of this board about the convenience of 1-stop service to east-coast US ports, and I don't mean via north Asia either. As for the ultra-long-range SIN/EWR or BKK/JFK services with SQ and TG, well, it's a very pretty flight over the North Pole in the daytime, but it takes for bloody ever, and it's miles and miles out of my way.

So I continue to pay top-dollar for reasonably good premium cabin service that gets me SYD/JFK in 20 hours :) , instead of 28+:mad: .
 

codash1099

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NYCguy said:
The QF/UA non-stop trans-pac duopoly is a very nice little earner for both of them, I should imagine. Still, I don't have to lecture the members of this board about the convenience of 1-stop service to east-coast US ports, and I don't mean via north Asia either. As for the ultra-long-range SIN/EWR or BKK/JFK services with SQ and TG, well, it's a very pretty flight over the North Pole in the daytime, but it takes for bloody ever, and it's miles and miles out of my way.

So I continue to pay top-dollar for reasonably good premium cabin service that gets me SYD/JFK in 20 hours :) , instead of 28+:mad: .
I have to agree. I did PER-SIN-ICN-YVR a few years ago - not helped by a 1 am start from PER. It seemd interminable and I was like a zombi for a couple of days (my kids say they didn't notice the difference). And the flight over the North Pole was indeed very pretty. It's one of those things everybody should do once.
 

NM

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peteQLD said:
Why is it that the Qantas business class fares are so much higher than most other airlines ??? i.e. $ 12k vs. $ 5k
Does anyone know ?
Yes, Qanats charge a premium for business class travel ex-Australia. But I think your numbers are a little exaggerated. Which routes does Qantas charge $12K while most other airlines charge $5K?

When you identify the routes and airlines, I think you will also identify some differences in the products. In my experience, the cheaper premium cabin options generally involve less direct routing or less comfortable seating etc. In these cases, the airlines offering the lower fares do so in order to stimulate demand on routes that would otherwise not fill their premium cabins.

Your mention of $12K for QF business class implies to me you are comparing either SYD/MEL/BNE-LHR or SYD/MEL/BNE-USA. I am not aware of too many options for business class travel on those routes at the $5K mark, so struggle to follow the comment about "most other airlines". What is UA's published business class fare for BNE/SYD/MEL-LAX (hint - its more than $5)? What is SQ, CX, VS, MH, TG, EK publiched business class fare SYD/MEL/BNE-LHR (hint - its more than $5K)?

Yes, some of these airlines are cheaper than QF, and many offer equal or better products. But in my experience the difference in fare cost is not as much as implied in the initial post (42% of the QF fare).

And I have never paid $12K to Qantas for business class travel to those locations. I have always managed to find options to travel business class with Qantas for under $10K (plus taxes) on those routes.

As a comparison, here are some published business class fares from SYD to LHR:

GF: $6263
EK: $7338
MH: $7517
BA: $7526
SQ: $10950
NZ: $10950
VS: $11029
QF: $11626
CX: $11626
TG: $13608
KE: $13925
JL: $13694

I could not find the reported "most" airlines offering this route for under $5K.

Similarly for SYD-LAX, where I fund the following published fares:

OZ: $7182
FJ: $7648
MH: $7770
JL: $8948
HA: $9938
NZ: $10399
CX: $12170
TN: $12815
AC: $13146
US: $13325
QF: $14080

Its interesting to note that the YY (IATA) fair for C class on this route is $12389, so anyone paying more than that for travel on an IATA airline is paying more than necessary.

And I cannot find any routes where QF charges $12K and most other airlines charge $5K. Can anyone point me to a route where this is the case as I would love to save 60% on business class airfares in a regular basis.
 

Travel Guru

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NM said:
Yes, Qanats charge a premium for business class travel ex-Australia. But I think your numbers are a little exaggerated. Which routes does Qantas charge $12K while most other airlines charge $5K?

When you identify the routes and airlines, I think you will also identify some differences in the products. In my experience, the cheaper premium cabin options generally involve less direct routing or less comfortable seating etc. In these cases, the airlines offering the lower fares do so in order to stimulate demand on routes that would otherwise not fill their premium cabins.

Your mention of $12K for QF business class implies to me you are comparing either SYD/MEL/BNE-LHR or SYD/MEL/BNE-USA. I am not aware of too many options for business class travel on those routes at the $5K mark, so struggle to follow the comment about "most other airlines". What is UA's published business class fare for BNE/SYD/MEL-LAX (hint - its more than $5)? What is SQ, CX, VS, MH, TG, EK publiched business class fare SYD/MEL/BNE-LHR (hint - its more than $5K)?

Yes, some of these airlines are cheaper than QF, and many offer equal or better products. But in my experience the difference in fare cost is not as much as implied in the initial post (42% of the QF fare).

And I have never paid $12K to Qantas for business class travel to those locations. I have always managed to find options to travel business class with Qantas for under $10K (plus taxes) on those routes.

As a comparison, here are some published business class fares from SYD to LHR:

GF: $6263
EK: $7338
MH: $7517
BA: $7526
SQ: $10950
NZ: $10950
VS: $11029
QF: $11626
CX: $11626
TG: $13608
KE: $13925
JL: $13694

I could not find the reported "most" airlines offering this route for under $5K.

Similarly for SYD-LAX, where I fund the following published fares:

OZ: $7182
FJ: $7648
MH: $7770
JL: $8948
HA: $9938
NZ: $10399
CX: $12170
TN: $12815
AC: $13146
US: $13325
QF: $14080

Its interesting to note that the YY (IATA) fair for C class on this route is $12389, so anyone paying more than that for travel on an IATA airline is paying more than necessary.

And I cannot find any routes where QF charges $12K and most other airlines charge $5K. Can anyone point me to a route where this is the case as I would love to save 60% on business class airfares in a regular basis.

With all due respect NM, i'm not too sure what published fares have to do with anything, being that most people deal with nett fares these days.

But as an aside, TG's Gross fare is not 13608, it is infact 5589, which puts PeteQLD closer to the mark than yourself.

While you are on the mark with a few, SQ, VS, NZ, CX, TG, KE & JL are way off, and are 2/3 or a 1/2 of what quoted.

There is no denying that Qantas is charging a premium, though its not that much higher than UA on the protected aus-us legs, in the end, as with everything in life, if someone says its too expensive, its never a case that, its always a case of you cant afford it.
 

NM

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Travel Guru said:
With all due respect NM, i'm not too sure what published fares have to do with anything, being that most people deal with nett fares these days.

But as an aside, TG's Gross fare is not 13608, it is infact 5589, which puts PeteQLD closer to the mark than yourself.
I took the fares straight from Expertflyer and looked for the lowest business class fare for each airline for travel in March and April. In most cases these were either D or C fares, in the case of BA it was an I fare, and for some like QF it was a J fare. I did not see a business class fare from TG for under $6,000, but that does not mean it cannot be purchased.

Also, consolidator fares are often available at rates less than published fares.
Travel Guru said:
While you are on the mark with a few, SQ, VS, NZ, CX, TG, KE & JL are way off, and are 2/3 or a 1/2 of what quoted.
Please post the fares that you have. I sourced all mine from the same source to provide what I thought was to be a fair comparision. If you have better number, please post them here so we can see the differences. I know our corporate fare for SYD-LAX is way less than $12K (a lot less, but not as low as $5K), but that is a corporate fare and not really a fare comparison.
Travel Guru said:
There is no denying that Qantas is charging a premium, though its not that much higher than UA on the protected aus-us legs, in the end, as with everything in life, if someone says its too expensive, its never a case that, its always a case of you cant afford it.
It is common in many markets for the "home" carrier to be the most expensive and for indirect carriers to offer more attractive pricing. For example, compare an LH fare ex-FRA to almost anywhere to a BA fare to the same point. BA will need to route via London and is likely significantly cheaper. However, do the same thing ex-London and BA will be dearer than LH who will route via FRA.

Many times Qantas offers fare in foreign markets that are significantly less than the same routing ex-Australia. For example, compare a SIN-PER-SIN fare to PER-SIN-PER. Most of the time the ex-SIN fare will be less, even though both are QF fares.

And the reason .... fares are based on what passengers will pay. Fares do not reflect actual costs. Australian are generally willing to pay more to fly with Qantas. Why? Because in many cases Qantas has people "locked-in" to their loyalty program, or they just don't know any better.
 

PaulZ

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Jan 11, 2005
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I note that KLM has some great business class airfares to Europe at the moment.

Cheap Discount Business Class Flights Worldwide

Doing a search for March/April Syd-Lhr and i can find flights for about $7,000.

I am actually looking at Melbourne - Milan in June/July and have found fares for less than $6000 return.

Has anyone flown with KLM? Is their Business Product of a good quality?


JAL also has some attractively priced fares at the moment as well: JL43 - Europe: Fare 01 From $5459 Excl Tax
 
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Travel Guru

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bestflights actually has a business class MH fare advertised at the moment for 2069 ex Perth to Istanbul return (book and pay by 14 April)
 

Evan

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Flown with KLM once, i wouldn't do it again in a hurry, not bad, just not as good as i expect for what i paid (economy), thats long haul, short haul hey all you want to do is get A to B so sure.

Also just before Christmas i was on QF flight SIN-MEL and talking to the girl next to me and she was saying they didn't have AVOD on her flight to get to Singapore.

But your flying business so one should assume a much better product regardless.

I like JAL , always had very nice flights with them. Either QF codeshare or JL.
And Tokyo if you havn't been is fun to visit (although i do prefer other Japanese cities more).

Evan
 

Kiwi Flyer

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Evan said:
For Europe there is so many other options out of Singapore/HongKong/Bangkok/etc but for US there is not as much choice. Std fare MEL-SIN-LDH-SIN-MEL is about $12k also and even with the competition they still sell.

Evan

PS. I wont pay too much of a premium but i will still always try to fly oneworld as thats my preference to build status and points only given the limited flying i do. Others will no doubt choose *A or Skywards for the same reason. But still a A* member for those trips that its unavoidable.
Presume you mean LHR or LON for London and not LDH for Lord Howe Island ;)

Evan - if you are flying one world in paid business or first to europe or north america on round trip fares ex-Oz, chances are you are paying a sizeable premium to some alternatives (even some with much better product).
 

Kiwi Flyer

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PaulZ said:
I note that KLM has some great business class airfares to Europe at the moment.

Cheap Discount Business Class Flights Worldwide

Doing a search for March/April Syd-Lhr and i can find flights for about $7,000.

I am actually looking at Melbourne - Milan in June/July and have found fares for less than $6000 return.

Has anyone flown with KLM? Is their Business Product of a good quality?


JAL also has some attractively priced fares at the moment as well: JL43 - Europe: Fare 01 From $5459 Excl Tax
Since KLM doesnt fly to Australia you will be flying another airline, most likely MH Malaysian (although KLM fares ex NZ also allow connections on NZ so there may be transit points other than KUL allowed).
 

Evan

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Presume you mean LHR or LON for London and not LDH for Lord Howe Island ;)

Evan - if you are flying one world in paid business or first to europe or north america on round trip fares ex-Oz, chances are you are paying a sizeable premium to some alternatives (even some with much better product).
LHR was what i was thinking... or rather Lord Howe was really what i was thinking as i have some holidays to burn soon and had it on the brain.
See what happens when you spend too much time in whY for work !

Yep, not disputing the fact you will pay more, was just attempting to say even these premium products can or will be cheaper than a MEL-LHR-MEL ticket. Didn't really come out correctly i guess but my reasoning was you could easily fly other locations as well at less cost. But as always for business you probably want direct flights as time is the reason, and we all need to figure out what our time is worth really.

Evan
 
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