Qantas business class is full of staff!!!

Discussion in 'Qantas Frequent Flyer Program' started by Platy, Nov 29, 2004.

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  1. Platy

    Platy Guest

    Have you had times when you couldn't get an upgrade or paid seat in Qantas business class?!

    On several occasions when I couldn't get a fully paid domestic business class ticket I asked how many commercial seats were for sale on the flight - the replies were 9 on 737-800 (12J) and 9 on a 767-300 (30J).

    A surreptious peak at the manifest left conveniently in the forward gallery area alerted me to the fact that QF business class is often crammed full of their own staff - I have even been on a flight with 7 out of 9 occupied seats taken by staff on a 737-800!!!

    Further investigation has shown this is the norm on the routes I fly. It appears there are two types of staff - subload and duty. I am told by the airline that subload are staff travelling in their own time and in theory they are not supposed to take precedence over

    1. a full paying passenger
    2. an upgrading passenger
    3. seating preference for a paying for upgrading passenger

    Furthermore they are not supposed to have seats allocated on a flight until 20 mins before departure.

    Duty staff have precedence due to union agreements and absolute precedence is also granted to the airline managers and pilots ahead of customers.

    No wonder fares are so high and have gone up 18.25% in 2 years! No wonder Qantas is complaining it can't make business class pay on certain routes!!! A significant portion of seats are non revenue! Furthemore, they are diluting their brand and creating a situation where cabin crew know they are serving principally their colleagues rather than paying passengers.

    It's happening as well on international - I have travelled first class to Europe several times and witnessed the same staff faces enjoying their ride in first class!!! Does the airline expect us to pay $14,000 return when we know the cabin is a glorified staff junkett?

    If you have had similar experiences please post them!

    If you are unable to get an upgrade or paid seat you might want to consider asking the airline how many staff are on the flight - and especially whether any subload staff are there because YOU should get pecendence over them for paid, seats, and upgrades and seating allocation!!!

    Incidentally, British Airways sell off their Club Europe (Business) seats at discount as restricted fares at anywhere between 25-70% discount!!!

  2. pvd

    pvd Newbie

    Nov 27, 2004
    That doesn't surpirse me.

    I worked for BA for 3 months and its was clear that the Yes Minister view holds sway. the airline is there for the benefit of the staff and a few first class corporate customers. Not to mention those faceless & unaccountable people in yeild management
  3. NM


    Aug 27, 2004
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    This depends on who you are asking about the number of seats. The Global Res Systems have a single digit space to show seats per class. The airlines only load this field with a value that represents an "at least" value. Show it may show J9, but that means there are at least 9 seats available for sale. And some airlines load a smaller number, such as AA only ever show a max of 7 in their systems, so J7 would mean there are at least 7 seats available for sale, but may be as many as the full cabin.

    I suspect that is why you are being told "9" on both 73H and 763 aircraft types. Look at an on-line GRS system such as ITN and you will see that QF load 9 as the max value in their class availability on all aircraft types.

    Subload travelers will not show in the numbers on a system like ITN since they are truely standby. But if a J seat has not been sold, or become available 30 mins prior to flight due to a paying pax canceling or changing their flight, it will go to a subload flyer who has a staff entitlement to J. I am sure this happens very regularly. I know that I often change my flight times, expecially on the homeward sector of a return journey if I have finished my work early. That will free up a seat on the flight I have changed from, so someone who may not have been able to buy a ticket on that flight may find it odd that my original seat flies empty or is used for an op-up or subload standby passenger.

    But I understand it can be very frustrating when you see what you have seen in the cabin. The best thing is to waitlist for the paid J fare and if there is a change up to two hours before, you may get on. But to waitlist you must have a confirmed seat either on another flight or in another class, so that may not always be possible.
  4. AlwaysUpThere

    AlwaysUpThere Member

    Nov 25, 2004
    U think Qantas is bad? (Well, they probably are but...)

    A colleague was travelling from HKG to JFK on UA. Lucky to have a spare seet next to him on that very busy route. He was sounly asleep mid way through the night only to wake up and have an "on duty" flight attendant, not on a rest break, sitting in the seat next to him with the light on reading a newspaper and of course, chewing gum.

    "Do you mind?" asked my colleague. :evil:

    Reply: "Oh, I'll be done in a minute." :roll:
  5. drron

    drron Enthusiast

    Jul 4, 2002
    Sunshine Coast
    18 months ago was flying LAX-AKL-BNE on Qantas having paid full business fare.At check in it was obvious that a lot of the business class was made up of staff and upgrades.Despite having pre -allocated seats my wife and I were told we had been re-allocated and could not be seated together,finally after much argument were given the 2 seats opposite the toilet upstairs.
    Add to this no access to Qantas lounge-yes having paid full J fare and being a life member of the Qantas club.Plus waiting an hour on the ground after boarding to fix the air-conditioning and inflight having a non-functioning entertanment system.
    So have not flown QF again.
    On the funnier side flew BA from BNE-SIN about 10 years ago on a deal that if you payed for business class you would travel first.Just after take-off was approached by FA and asked if I would like the lobster for dinner.I asked why make a decision so early and was told we only have 2 lobsters and you and the gentleman behind you are the only 2 fare paying passengers-We both had lobster.No wonder first class out of BNE ended soon after!
  6. thadocta

    thadocta Active Member

    Hmmmm, this board seems to be filling up with posts from relatively new members describing experiences which those of us who use QF somewhat regularly have never experienced. A J passenger being denied lounge access before an international flight? I don't think so. Splitting up a couple who booked well in advance? I don't think so.

    Any other BB's that people contribute to becoming infested with trolls, or just this one?

  7. Kiwi Flyer

    Kiwi Flyer Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    Agree some posts are odd. Could it be that some posters are upset over announced changes so want to stir things up with stories of how else they have been poorly treated by QF? :wink:

    Not that QF is perfect, but still ...
  8. dajop

    dajop Senior Member

    Jul 1, 2002
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    Yeah I agree - a lifetime QC member with paid J tix, being denied lounge access in LAX - I don't think so - unless perhaps they arrived at the lounge when the flight was on Final Call.
  9. NM


    Aug 27, 2004
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    And the OP stated this was LAX-AKL-BNE so that means QF26 which departs from TBI terminal at LAX. Now, TBI is not the greatest QF Business Class lounge, but heck, its still a lounge.

    Now there was some mention recently that TBI is about to undergo some major renovations - and about time I hear you say. The story goes that they will build one large OneWorld lounge and one large Star Alliance lounge - one on each of the lounge levels. While these renovations are being undertaken, it is quite possible that lounge access may be severely restricted. Have these renovations commenced? I have not heard of such, and avoid departures from TBI so have no first hand knowledge for well over a year.

    So unless QF (and BA, CX etc) make alternate arrangements for lounge access during the renovations, there may well be situations such as this where QP/J flyers don't have a lounge. In that case it is not a matter of being denied access, but just that there is no lounge available to use. I wonder what arrangements they will make for F pax at that time???
  10. Bob

    Bob Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    Brisbane (sometimes)
    NM, I flew QF175 4 weeks ago and used the TBI lounge. TBI was not being renovated. Glad to hear it will be - it is a shocker and so is the lounge. I have resolved to forget the BN LAX flights from now on. a) no skybeds; b) TBI and lounge.

    On the positive side, the QF staff at TBI went out of their way to be helpful.
  11. englishmanabroad

    Dec 6, 2004
    Discounted BA bus class

    I've seen BA club for 20% off, or around $6,500 to LHR and back but never 70% off (or in fact for less than $6k). Have to take the whole family back in march and currently in world traveller plus, so any tips on that sort of discount in club would be worth having!
  12. Platy

    Platy Guest

    New members unwelcome or what?

    Several members have questioned the validity and motivation of posts from recent members such as myself.

    I would add that my experiences in not getting correct seating, being unable to buy business class seats, being disposessed by staff and the like and not unique occasions and happen to me regularly. iIhave approached the airline repeated to resolve these issues up to senior management level and am geunuinely concened to share experiences.

    I am also a Platinum QF flyer who flies up to 5 times a week so guys I do know what I'm talking about!!!

    Perhaps we have airline moles in our mist rather than newcommer trolls!!!

    Enjoy your flights everyone.
  13. Kiwi Flyer

    Kiwi Flyer Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    You may be a little bit sensitive Platy.

    While I cant speak for anyone else, my comments were not directed at you but just a general observation and speculation.

    And now, time for a beer I reckon.
  14. Platy

    Platy Guest

    Opinions and BA club

    No worries Kiwi flyer - hope the beer was good!

    Incientally, with regard to another reply, the 70% discount on BA is possible for Club Europe - have travelled a few times in europe in the last 12 months at about 50% discount and trialled some flights on the BA online site to see the levels of discounting.

    Sure, SYD-LHR is less disocunted in business and first but as you say you can get some out of season deals like a rcent one for about 20-35%.
  15. willyroo

    willyroo Junior Member

    Jan 14, 2003
    Flew SYD-BNE about 3 weeks ago and around 6 Jetstar FAs to be found in J. I had requested an ODU - answer was "no sorry we're full" - to use up an expiring UC.

    QF staff in J I'll live with.

    JQ staff is another matter...
  16. thadocta

    thadocta Active Member

    It's a worry when they won't even fly on their own airline...

  17. NM


    Aug 27, 2004
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    Probably something to do with no allocated seating, so they might end up squashed in between two paying passengers in the only remaining middle seats :roll: .
  18. ronone69

    ronone69 Intern

    Dec 12, 2004
    Don't blame QF for this.

    The unions required first and business class travel for QF staff to be included in the agreements.

    So what you are paying for is a unionised workforce which is why QF is moving flights to JQ where it does not have this problem

    BA also have similar problems with their agreements.

    So next time you pay through the nose for a F or J ticket, just think how many union bosses you are keeping in a job !!!!

    PS: Union officials also travel J class domestic on QF. Don't know if they pay for the ticket or whether this too is part of the deal.
  19. Platy

    Platy Guest

    Dear Moderator,

    This seems to be a blatantly political post. If you allow it, it needs a response.

    Dear Ronone69

    You are confusing several things here.

    Firstly, I was talking about staff in the subload category, ie staff who have staff paid tickets, this is a different issue to one of job entitlement

    Secondly, I was talking about staff who break the rules which management claim they are supposed to be following

    Thirdly, contrary to your fanatistical vision of the corporate world, the unions do not dictate how management run the airline, for example,

    - the QF executive consistently downplaying airline performance when they are making an ENORMOUS profit (despite the so called problems with "unions")

    - the QF executive agreeing to $10 millions of bonuses and pay outs for themselves, over $100 million in Geoff Dixon's case if the buy out had gone through, which is the equivalent of the salaries of 100s of staff

    Qantas is answerable to its shareholders and thus will do anything to promote a higher short term profit, including finding any way it can to lower wages.

    Healthy employee relationships are vital to a healthy company, but rarely factored into any economic model, which is basically why unequal employee agreements (eg the IR laws formerly known as WorkChoices) are so extenseively unpopular with any reasonable citizen of this country.

    At the end of the day its Geoff Dixon's bonus you are paying for.
  20. simongr

    simongr Enthusiast

    Jul 10, 2006
    One might think it was the butt in the seat getting you from a to b that you are actually paying for in either case :) - how the corporate oinkers and communist rabble rousers carve up that fare is really not important :)

    Just thought I would get that in before the thread got locked :)

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