Qantas brand badly tarnished

Business class perhaps you have a point; but I don't see any evidence that QF charges more for domestic routes vs other carries.

On my main route (NTL-BNE), QF is often cheaper than JQ or VA (based on now they have more flights than the other carriers - previously this was a JQ heavy port which is no longer the case since the closure of the JQ base).

It's going to be a different result for every route.
I do see that evidence. Every single trip I've taken this year (albeit only 11 domestic flights) Virgin business has been approx. the same price as Qantas flexi economy (say +/- $20)
I was looking at some flights last night back from Cairns, VA business was 1/4 of Qantas business, Same day.
In fact the flight I had to change the other week, Originally $300 VA business, Qantas flex was like $315 at time of purchase. I could've changed to an earlier VA flight for $400 or so in Business. But that flight disappeared and schedule had me end up in Qf flexi economy at just under $700. Qantas business was around $1000-$1200.
And yet, my qantas upgrade cleared for the flight
 
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So after establishing your "double" price difference is about $45 return - are you suggesting QF should be capped at VA's fares - even if more people are booking QF's seats? Why are people flying on QF at all when they can be saving $45?

It's your argument that should be in question. Mine was that price depends on a lot of variables and I don't think you can definitively say one is more than the other - certainly not by the margins you are suggesting. Some would also put value on the free inclusions such as alcohol on QF or hot meals on longer flights.

I think you might have been happier back before airline deregulation.
I didn't say that for that specific route it was double, I said there are examples that I have seen (by searching), where the difference was doubles. You are doing a strawman here.

In my example here, the difference is around $100, not $45. The difference is, you are unlikely to find a different set of dates where for example VA is $100 more expensive than QF, but sure you can cherry pick dates where QF is "only" $45 more expensive. Do you see the difference?

I don't think QF serve alcohol nor anything that maybe classified as a "meal" on a SYD-BNE flight, nor any other 1h-ish domestic flight.
 
I didn't say that for that specific route it was double, I said there are examples that I have seen (by searching), where the difference was doubles. You are doing a strawman here.

In my example here, the difference is around $100, not $45. The difference is, you are unlikely to find a different set of dates where for example VA is $100 more expensive than QF, but sure you can cherry pick dates where QF is "only" $45 more expensive. Do you see the difference?

I don't think QF serve alcohol nor anything that maybe classified as a "meal" on a SYD-BNE flight, nor any other 1h-ish domestic flight.

You picked the dates! I did a search on google flights for those dates and that's what the price difference was. If you are time picky then that's yet another factor.

I've seen plenty of examples on NTL-BNE where VA is $100 or even $200 more than QF. They don't have a lot of seats on the route. I'm sure there's other examples.

Just book what you want, but your claims of QF "screwing customers" is baseless. People are willingly purchasing these fares for both airlines. Supply/Demand. I'm out, this is getting ridiculous.

And yes - QF do serve alcohol on all routes after 4pm - including BNE-SYD, and longer routes after 9am. Hot meals on longer routes, as I specified.
 
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It's your argument that should be in question. Mine was that price depends on a lot of variables and I don't think you can definitively say one is more than the other - certainly not by the margins you are suggesting. Some would also put value on the free inclusions such as alcohol on QF or hot meals on longer flights.
I get free booze in Virgin business. Is Qantas serving booze in economy at the moment?
 
I get free booze in Virgin business. Is Qantas serving booze in economy at the moment?

Vic, trying to match apples with apples, for a similar situation, how do change fees and rebooking regulations (i.e. carrier rules) compare between QFd and VAd?

I know a few people who've had to pay outrageous extra amounts in fares as they've changed close to departure date on QFd, but don't know anyone who regularly uses VAd and has to sometimes change their flights.
 
Vic, trying to match apples with apples, for a similar situation, how do change fees and rebooking regulations (i.e. carrier rules) compare between QFd and VAd?

I know a few people who've had to pay outrageous extra amounts in fares as they've changed close to departure date on QFd, but don't know anyone who regularly uses VAd and has to sometimes change their flights.
I only asked about the wine because Qantas used to be very limited in offering wine in economy, and I thought I read someone here recently say they got no wine.

I agree that I'm not seeing outrageous fare difference to change with Virgin, but Qantas changes to new fares does involve a big fare difference.

In terms of changing I find Virgin to be very easy, but can get hung up on the rules if trying to do things on line. Admittedly we're in special times at the moment with flexible change rules.
But I've had to change flights that were booked in business with Qantas. Given the late timeframe to change a pre-booked business fare, Qantas has offered +$6/$9 to move to flexi on the new flight or +$200 to $400 to move to business on the new flight. Seems to me in offering flexi economy they've waived the equal or higher fare class rule. Both times I've made this type of change - my upgrade request has cleared.

Virgin changes, the fares were all coming from business originally but cancelled into travel bank. The one difficulty is that it's my business flyer travel bank so normal call centre cannot deal with changes. I had to split a booking with 2 people on it, that was actually an economy fare, as I had separate business bookings for another two people.
No problem splitting the fare. I knew I'd have to cancel as the earlier virgin flight was gone. I could not cancel on line, I could change on line but they wanted an $80 fee as per the economy fare conditions. I had to ring then, and they cancelled and refunded to travel bank without question and without fee.

On the $80 fee thing, my understanding was the original fare conditions (business) would apply to any booking made with the travel bank money. But I did not have to argue the point, as the original VA flight had a 5 minute time change, and they just used that as a reason to say the flight was no longer acceptable. So I totally won.

I had a cancellation thing last year with Qantas, I tried to get that double status voucher thing, but the call centre person refused. I got a bit pushy because this was the flight where the second leg was moved to be 2 weeks before the first leg. Basically, Qantas messed that up. After a while, I was told "we can refund you due to schedule change". So it wasn't hard in the end, but it was hard to get there.

I booked Qatar to Europe for the recent board meeting because I required a fully refundable airfare (the rules for the board). Qatar covid allowance was full refund on any airfare. Qantas wanted like a $900 fee on a similar priced fare, (like +$2000), and Qantas was almost double for a fully refundable fare. Again in business.
 
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I can see that some find the matter of fare/change difference is very important, but does it lead in any significant way to the tarnishing of the QF brand in the broader community?
 
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I can see that some find the matter of fare/change difference is very important, but does it lead in any significant way to the tarnishing of the QF brand in the broader community?

For some very clearly it does. For others, it very clearly does not. I highly doubt it 'tarnishes' any brand in either direction.

What some people need to realise is that some brands target different customers, different segments of the population, different demographics and those with different purchasing power, plus many more variables

Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar are not targeting the same customer.

If Qantas is too expensive for you on occasion then you can fly one of the lower cost alternatives who are priced within your means.

It doesn't mean the Qantas brand is tarnished, it means it isn't the airline for you specifically. And that is ok.
 
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I suppose the tarnishing of the brand (or polishing as reverse?) can be related to a general consensus of over charging and/or value (or not) for money. And this extends to other areas - read some of the threads about catering and some posters will decry "for what X is charging for this flight..." and that speaks to the brand reputation imo. I personally have some quibbles with that point of view, but I'll save that for the appropriate place. It's an example of the point of this thread though.

VA2 is not pitching itself as a legacy airline anymore... going more back to the DJ days, but with a J cabin. They've very deliberately (and I think in a quite clever way actually, even though I do not fly them) put their image out there as a middle of the road guy and a value for money deal (also reflected with the recent dropping of J fares on the trunk routes to $299 or whatever it is). Many say the product is superior, and I have no reason to doubt that. VA2 also said they weren't targeting specifically the big corporate accounts (though they still obviously hold a number, like the AFL for example) and reviving The Club (I know it has a new name now, but I forget what it is) as a kind of alternate CL says otherwise, but the general view is VA is trying to be a value legacy brand - and without many of the cost issues QF has (high time senior staff and general bloat) they can do this to a certain degree (but let's not forget that this is all on the back of significant private equity $$$ from Bain after VA1 went belly up). The downs of the VA brand are probably network (specially international) and partners... so there may be more limited appeal there - though recent time ups with QR, UA and renewal of ties with SQ has made significant inroads there I would think.

QF definitely targets different segments though and I think trade a lot on things like being the flag carrier, the safety record, the historic tirs and a lot of that stuff that probably comes under the general accounting term of "brand goodwill" and "loyalty" - but these days likely mean less and less to many - specially as younger folks become used to more than the good old days of the two airline system, having international LCC's (AirAsiaX, Bamboo, Scoot etc) and other priorities (eg: sustainability, social media "cred" etc)

Does QF always charge higher fares? probably not. However anyone can find any examples they might like to support a contention one way or the other I imagine. They are all data points.

I think what is possibly more relevant is that there is most definitely a perception that QF as a brand charges higher prices than much of the competition - specially in premium cabins. I tend to think the reason the price tags show up as such is two fold. 1. Because they market is sustaining them to a degree where it makes sense to have those sticker prices-if not they would go down and 2. (specially for Premium fares) few are actually paying the fares one sees published - corporate discounts, travel contracts etc probably reduce those fares significantly for many. I often wonder at the people who discuss product and service and then "the price they are charging for this..." - if they could survey the pax actually in the cabin would probably be surprised at the actual amounts being paid (vs. upgrades vs. staff travel vs. connecting traffic etc etc etc) and those people who are paying $20k+ for a F fare someplace are in the economic situation where it doesn't matter(and for those that it does, they're on SQ or QR :) ).

so anyway pricing, or perception of pricing, does I think affect one's views of a brand in a general sense.
 
You picked the dates! I did a search on google flights for those dates and that's what the price difference was. If you are time picky then that's yet another factor.

I've seen plenty of examples on NTL-BNE where VA is $100 or even $200 more than QF. They don't have a lot of seats on the route. I'm sure there's other examples.

Just book what you want, but your claims of QF "screwing customers" is baseless. People are willingly purchasing these fares for both airlines. Supply/Demand. I'm out, this is getting ridiculous.

And yes - QF do serve alcohol on all routes after 4pm - including BNE-SYD, and longer routes after 9am. Hot meals on longer routes, as I specified.

Flight aggregators are often inaccurate and have outdated information. I am going by both airlines websites, and I would only book through the airline directly - I think we all saw the pitfalls of OTAs during covid.

Ok, so if you can find me an example of where VA is more expensive on that route, I would like to see it.
 
No booze in economy until later in the day not sure of exact time.

Answer was already posted:

And yes - QF do serve alcohol on all routes after 4pm - including BNE-SYD, and longer routes after 9am. Hot meals on longer routes, as I specified.

Longer routes being more than 3.5 hours.
 
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I can see that some find the matter of fare/change difference is very important, but does it lead in any significant way to the tarnishing of the QF brand in the broader community?
For some very clearly it does. For others, it very clearly does not. I highly doubt it 'tarnishes' any brand in either direction.

What some people need to realise is that some brands target different customers, different segments of the population, different demographics and those with different purchasing power, plus many more variables

Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar are not targeting the same customer.

If Qantas is too expensive for you on occasion then you can fly one of the lower cost alternatives who are priced within your means.

It doesn't mean the Qantas brand is tarnished, it means it isn't the airline for you specifically. And that is ok.
I suggest you've both missed the point of my input to thread.
I started by addressing the claims made by others about fare difference between airlines. I'm just providing data for the other conversation being held.
Assuming anything about what I might realise, or assigning meaning to that data in relation to tarnishing of brands would be a mistake.

I then responded to a question about the ease of changing airfares. Perhaps off topic as a question, but I'm happy to provide the data I have. Again, assigning any meaning about my views/opinion would be incorrect.
 
I suggest you've both missed the point of my input to thread.
I started by addressing the claims made by others about fare difference between airlines. I'm just providing data for the other conversation being held.
Assuming anything about what I might realise, or assigning meaning to that data in relation to tarnishing of brands would be a mistake.

I then responded to a question about the ease of changing airfares. Perhaps off topic as a question, but I'm happy to provide the data I have. Again, assigning any meaning about my views/opinion would be incorrect.

Perhaps then a different thread for your 'findings' if they don’t relate to the thread title would help :)
 
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I suggest you've both missed the point of my input to thread.
I started by addressing the claims made by others about fare difference between airlines. I'm just providing data for the other conversation being held.
Assuming anything about what I might realise, or assigning meaning to that data in relation to tarnishing of brands would be a mistake.

I then responded to a question about the ease of changing airfares. Perhaps off topic as a question, but I'm happy to provide the data I have. Again, assigning any meaning about my views/opinion would be incorrect.
I suggest that you missed the point on my input to the thread. After a page or two of comments about fares I made the comment "I can see that some find the matter of fare/change difference is very important, but does it lead in any significant way to the tarnishing of the QF brand in the broader community?"

I stand by my comment which was not directed at you in any specific way, but was very general. I still don't see how fare differences lead to the tarnishing of the QF brand - as apart from that idiotic period where Borghetti tried to take on Joyce that led to massive capacity being re-directed QF has always had a price differential. You can argue whether there is value in the differential, but I can't see where that features in the "tarnishing' debate which has been more about dumping pax, refunding instead of rebooking, losing luggage etc.
 
Week days only?
Putting this to rest.

In Economy:
- On Long Haul flights there should be beer/wine/spirits should be available 24/7.

- On Trans Tasman/short haul flights it's only beer/wine after 9am daily.

- On Domestic/regional flights it's only beers/wine after 4pm daily (although note if majority of the flight is after 4pm this is still counted). There are two major exceptions to this:
- on domestic flights over 3.5hrs beer/wine is served on flights that depart after 9am
- The Qantas website suggests that on regional WA flights beer/wine is served after 12pm but is not free ($6 cash) - not sure if this is correct though?
 
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