Project Sunrise gets massive support boost due to Corona virus | Australian Frequent Flyer
Australian Frequent Flyer

Welcome to Australia's leading independent Frequent Flyer and Travel Resource since 1998!
Our site contains tons of information that will improve your travel experience.

Joining AFF is fast, simple & absolutely free - register now and take immediate advantage of these great BENEFITS.

Once registered, this box will disappear. And you will see fewer advertisements :)

Project Sunrise gets massive support boost due to Corona virus

juddles

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
5,229
Qantas
Platinum 1
Flights
My Map
Just a disclaimer at the very start - I have used the current "click-bait" accepted decorum when deciding on a title - ie it is deceptive, there are no actual facts to substantiate anything, but if I get pressed I could worm my way out with fluff....

But there is a serious side to creating this thread. The concept of QF direct flights to places like London and New York has attracted much comment. Mainly about the difficulties of the crew and extended hour flights. And also of the pax desire to have a short break half-way to stretch the legs and relieve the monotony. I get those two sources of hesitancy. A third aspect (specifically on the aussie - Europe route) is the desire to avoid stopping in on the ME countries that have some laws and practices that are a tad alarming to many australians....

So anyway, given the rising of Corona virus ( or whatever today's new name for it is), IMHO this raises a whole new facet in debating the merits of Project Sunrise (which is essentially a concept of point-to point global travel)

China is the epicentre of an outbreak of disease that has brought with it massive travel bans. It is very conceivable that soon most if not all of SE Asia will be subject to the same. In this sort of scenario direct Europe - Aussie flights would allow a much less disrupted travel future. This is not a concept I have heard before. Surely if Sunrise gets off the ground this sort of international event would be extremely supporting for it? (And we all know that there will be endless new diseases like Corona virus...)
 

RSD

Active Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
814
Just a disclaimer at the very start - I have used the current "click-bait" accepted decorum when deciding on a title - ie it is deceptive, there are no actual facts to substantiate anything, but if I get pressed I could worm my way out with fluff....

But there is a serious side to creating this thread. The concept of QF direct flights to places like London and New York has attracted much comment. Mainly about the difficulties of the crew and extended hour flights. And also of the pax desire to have a short break half-way to stretch the legs and relieve the monotony. I get those two sources of hesitancy. A third aspect (specifically on the aussie - Europe route) is the desire to avoid stopping in on the ME countries that have some laws and practices that are a tad alarming to many australians....

So anyway, given the rising of Corona virus ( or whatever today's new name for it is), IMHO this raises a whole new facet in debating the merits of Project Sunrise (which is essentially a concept of point-to point global travel)

China is the epicentre of an outbreak of disease that has brought with it massive travel bans. It is very conceivable that soon most if not all of SE Asia will be subject to the same. In this sort of scenario direct Europe - Aussie flights would allow a much less disrupted travel future. This is not a concept I have heard before. Surely if Sunrise gets off the ground this sort of international event would be extremely supporting for it? (And we all know that there will be endless new diseases like Corona virus...)
I would look at it another way - if @jb747 says he wouldn't do Sunrise as a pilot or pax then that is good enough for me so if SE Asia really needs to be avoided and I really needed to go to London I would do it heading east instead of west - and the first sector wouldn't be direct to JFK. But keep trying though...
 

juddles

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
5,229
Qantas
Platinum 1
Flights
My Map
I would look at it another way - if @jb747 says he wouldn't do Sunrise as a pilot or pax then that is good enough for me so if SE Asia really needs to be avoided and I really needed to go to London I would do it heading east instead of west - and the first sector wouldn't be direct to JFK. But keep trying though...
Am not sure I understand your point of view? Flights east or west would be of same duration, so safety/etc issues the same.

Am not trying to be provocative regarding the intent of the thread - but I just cannot avoid a sideswipe at the ridiculous media click-baiting that is omni=present these days. the thread itself is serious - point to point travel must surely be even more attractive in an age where people want to avoid the inconvenience of flus and diseases.. And these epidemics seem to have a habit of starting in SE asia.(or Africa which is not a hub for international global travel)
 

RSD

Active Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
814
Am not sure I understand your point of view? Flights east or west would be of same duration, so safety/etc issues the same.
First leg would be to DFW - which has a proven safety record with QF and I have done plenty of times before. Would be overnighting there and then on to London the next day with AA or BA

Am not trying to be provocative regarding the intent of the thread - but I just cannot avoid a sideswipe at the ridiculous media click-baiting that is omni=present these days. the thread itself is serious - point to point travel must surely be even more attractive in an age where people want to avoid the inconvenience of flus and diseases.. And these epidemics seem to have a habit of starting in SE asia.(or Africa which is not a hub for international global travel)
Sydney to London non-stop is simply not attractive to me unless the planes start to go a lot quicker otherwise I'm going to be going via somewhere.
 

p--and--t

Established Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
1,318
Qantas
Bronze
Virgin
Red
Who knows whether its spin or not but AJ has alluded to PER-LHR-PER to be one of the more successful new route launches.

In addition, despite all the incredible negativity in forums about how the dreadfully unbearable :rolleyes: extra 1-2 hours in the air would result in abject failure of the service, other reports seem to show high seat occupancy across all classes since day one.
 

RSD

Active Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
814
Who knows whether its spin or not but AJ has alluded to PER-LHR-PER to be one of the more successful new route launches.

In addition, despite all the incredible negativity in forums about how the dreadfully unbearable :rolleyes: extra 1-2 hours in the air would result in abject failure of the service, other reports seem to show high seat occupancy across all classes since day one.
No doubt it is attractive to some - but it doesn't sound like something that I would want to do.
 

juddles

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
5,229
Qantas
Platinum 1
Flights
My Map
If I had to travel tomorrow to the UK, the choice between risking SE asia and flying direct is to me a no-brainer.

Without getting all Gretini about one's impact on the world, another way to think of this is the following: If I need to get to the UK, and do so on a direct flight, the risk of taking Coronavirus from outback Queensland direct to the UK is effectively nil. If I travel via SE asia the risk suddenly becomes much more serious, and poses an onerous task on the UK authorities to properly screen me. I do not just think of the hours in a plane or the chance of a stopover to stretch my legs...
 

jase05

Established Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
1,986
Qantas
Gold
Virgin
Platinum
If I had to travel tomorrow to the UK, the choice between risking SE asia and flying direct is to me a no-brainer.
I would go via the ME or US. I have no interest in ever doing the direct route personally.
QF’s price is just ridiculous for starters and I’m not fond of their J seats
 
Last edited:

juddles

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
5,229
Qantas
Platinum 1
Flights
My Map
I would go via the ME or US. I have no interest in ever doing the direct route personally.
I get that and respect everyone's personal desires. :) But as p--and--t pointed out, there are so many travellers that have taken up the point-to-point thing.

But the point of this thread is about travel in an age of disease-travel-bans. This time countries were comparatively swift to close some routes and pax travel - I foresee that these measures will become more and more adopted as standard practice.
 

Tropic

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
371
Long haul pax comfort offering from QF would have to improve markedly before I would consider point to point regardless of pricing. No indication QF will prioritise pax comfort over cost/revenue with new aircraft so not holding my breath... if global pandemic, wont be travelling anyway.
 

Scarlett

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
411
Qantas
LT Gold
Virgin
Platinum
Flights
My Map
I think you're jumping at shadows juddles. How often has this 'avoid a geographic region because of a virus' come up? Let's be generous and say once every 10 years... so that adds about 0.01% reason for Sunrise as a company plan.

'the age of viruses': now I KNOW you've gone full click bait! 😂

Now, your basic premise that ULR travel could prove useful is sound. It'll likely come in handy avoiding undeclared wars and nations with a propensity to use surface to air missile systems on civilian aircraft...
 
  • Like
Reactions: RSD

samh004

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
18,152
Qantas
Platinum
Virgin
Red
Flights
My Map
If I was going to draw a random reason out of a hat for why Australians might like to fly direct instead of connect and avoid SE Asia/ME countries, it wouldn't be fear of a virus, but perhaps a 6-letter 'ism' starting with 'R'. But I'm not going to open that can of worms and suggest such a thing.

I don't doubt that the virus must make some people think direct would be safer, until they see the cost though and money generally wins at that stage.
 

NSun

Intern
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
95
Qantas
Platinum
I get the point loud and clear and can understand some may have concerns. But in the context of Project Sunrise I'm not sure diseases like the coronavirus be a major factor.

For me, I'm reserving judgement on whether or not I do project sunrise flights until I see what the soft product looks like. But it seems more and more likely that this will happen and even if I don't do it some people will. For all that people complain about Y on QF9-10 and the new Y+ product (legroom specifically) in general, the success of the route suggests a completely different story.
 

p--and--t

Established Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
1,318
Qantas
Bronze
Virgin
Red
The best part of any journey is to be on your way in the air to your desired destination settled comfortably in your seat.

The main reason I will always take a direct flight (with a small impost) will be I that despise the whole process of getting to the airport hours before i can leave, queuing to check luggage, waiting around, going through security, opening my bags to get swabbed, getting asked inane questions in the "theatre of security", the whole boarding process, queuing to get off, waiting around for the next flight, repeating the whole security and boarding process again, storing and un-storing hand luggage, the repeated safety videos and checks blah blah blah.

If I only have to go through that stuff once in my journey without repeats of the administrative crap. - absolute bonus.
 

jase05

Established Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
1,986
Qantas
Gold
Virgin
Platinum
The best part of any journey is to be on your way in the air to your desired destination settled comfortably in your seat.

The main reason I will always take a direct flight (with a small impost) will be I that despise the whole process of getting to the airport hours before i can leave, queuing to check luggage, waiting around, going through security, opening my bags to get swabbed, getting asked inane questions in the "theatre of security", the whole boarding process, queuing to get off, waiting around for the next flight, repeating the whole security and boarding process again, storing and un-storing hand luggage, the repeated safety videos and checks blah blah blah.

If I only have to go through that stuff once in my journey without repeats of the administrative crap. - absolute bonus.
Do you personally put a price on that though or is there a point when other factors outweigh the benefit of a direct flight?
For me comfort and cost are my main priorities but everyone is different and if I was travelling for business then yes a direct flight would be more attractive
 

ozfflyer

Established Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
1,129
the other point is when hubs get too big, they don't work for the passenger. They might work well for the airport operator, due to economies of scale, but when they get too big, delays occur & if bad weather anywhere that can be a nightmare.

Look at USA for example. Hubs are a mess & getting worse.

Along comes Neeleman who's started/backed many airlines successfully (Morris Air, Jetblue. Westjet, Azul, TAP Portugal) who's getting incredibly cheap Emb195s from his Brazilian airline & 60 or so x A220-300s & says he's going mainly into secondary airports, point to point. The emb 195s for short haul up to 2 hours or whatever their best efficient range is & the A220s for longer haul including west coast to west & trans-Atlantic, on routes where a larger aircraft even a B738 or A319 won't work or can't reach.

The B787s & A350s are killing the A380, as hub busters long haul.

Hell even the Fijians are talking of going NAN/NYC now with an A350, admittably trying to turn NAN into a similar hub to AKL.
 

dajop

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 1, 2002
Messages
10,112
Flights
My Map
it wouldn't be fear of a virus, but perhaps a 6-letter 'ism' starting with 'R'. But I'm not going to open that can of worms and suggest such a thing.
Trying not to open that can of worms, but just one comment that I think the thing you didn’t mention is not a big factor. The demographic that you talk about that may be predisposed to the thing you didn’t mention do seem quite happy to take an annual holiday in one specific part of SE Asia. If the thing you didn’t mention was such a big factor Bali would not be the most popular destination for Australias holiday overseas. Nor would SQ have almost 150 flights a week to Australia, not would EK have 60 or so flights a week ...
 

p--and--t

Established Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
1,318
Qantas
Bronze
Virgin
Red
Do you personally put a price on that though or is there a point when other factors outweigh the benefit of a direct flight?
For me comfort and cost are my main priorities but everyone is different and if I was travelling for business then yes a direct flight would be more attractive
Yep, lots of factors go into selecting the flight(s). I don't have the luxury of travelling on someone else's purse so unless I am on points, then I am more often in Y, I'd rather spend the money on the destination than the journey, so cost is often the prime consideration after perceived safety/carrier reputation.

Gave up on Y+ because after a few tries on various carriers, decided there was no value in it. J is usually (not always) beyond my price tolerance level.

If I can have one less airport experience and get there a few hours quicker then that definitely has quite a bit of value to me personally. The reason for travelling is mainly the destination, not the transport (is that a sacrilege to say in a forum for this cohort :oops: )

Obviously that doesn't equate to a doubling of the fare, but if there is say up to a couple hundred bucks more on a return journey to LHR then I'd take the non-stop.

If I could skip LAX and travel anywhere else in the states directly, HUGE bonus, I loathe that airport.

EDIT: and so my post stays in the subject matter of the thread - yes a couple hundred bucks to remove risk of being quarantined for 14 days - absolutely.
 
Last edited:

Community Statistics

Threads
85,393
Messages
2,012,748
Members
52,588
Latest member
Spot23
Top