Possible Asian 747 retime?

[hutch]

Saw this on another website (RGN) which seems to suggest a retime of QF Asian 747 services (well, that's how I read it). Not sure a retime to HKG will save anytime, but theres a fair chunk of downtime at HND. I would have thought getting alt slots there would be tough?

"A Qantas spokesperson also confirmed to Runway Girl Network that the airline is looking to retime other Boeing 747 flights — which primarily service Asian destinations — in order to increase aircraft utilisation and free up flying hours in order to create enough capacity for the sixth flight.

“We also have a number of alternatives to Boeing 747 aircraft patterning pending slot availability and will update you as soon as we have confirmation,” the spokesperson promised."

 

[hutch]

Sorry the "sixth flight" refers to the proposed 6th SFO frequency.

 

[Christoo]

A sleeper service from MEL and SYD to HKG or PVG would be great news.

 

[Himeno]

Saw this on another website (RGN) which seems to suggest a retime of QF Asian 747 services (well, that's how I read it). Not sure a retime to HKG will save anytime, but theres a fair chunk of downtime at HND. I would have thought getting alt slots there would be tough?

The SYD-TYO flights currently use 2 aircraft, while it is possible to do the flight with 1. The downtime in TYO = a one way transpac.

While there is parking space available for the QF timetable at NRT, there isn't as much space at HND where the parking spaces have generally been limited to 3 hours. The slots at HND aren't so much times as it is within a range. Arrive/depart between 10pm and 6am.

 

[hutch]

The SYD-TYO flights currently use 2 aircraft, while it is possible to do the flight with 1. The downtime in TYO = a one way transpac.

While there is parking space available for the QF timetable at NRT, there isn't as much space at HND where the parking spaces have generally been limited to 3 hours. The slots at HND aren't so much times as it is within a range. Arrive/depart between 10pm and 6am.

Yeah, I guess that's the drama. Arriving into HND at 10pm ain't that appealing!

 

[Himeno]

Yeah, I guess that's the drama. Arriving into HND at 10pm ain't that appealing!

A lot of the NH and JL HND flights depart between 10pm and midnight and arrive ~6am.
The BA and, before they pulled out, AA flights arrived ~430 and departed ~6, shortly after connecting JL SE Asia flights arrived.

Flight times ex SYD to arrive HND ~4-5am would work. Get through customs and be at the trains/buses in time for the public transport to start for the day.
The problem, for QF, is that a ~6am departure gets back to SYD around 7pm, limiting onward connections.

 

[hutch]

Well the current SYD - NRT/HND flights have that arrival into Tokyo. I just don't see an early departure ex HND working. Poor connections on both ends and i assume business travellers may want to leave at the end of the day, not at a really early time in the morning.

 

[Himeno]

Well the current SYD - NRT/HND flights have that arrival into Tokyo. I just don't see an early departure ex HND working. Poor connections on both ends and i assume business travellers may want to leave at the end of the day, not at a really early time in the morning.

and doing it the other way (arrive HND ~10pm, depart ~midnight) just moves the problems to the ex-SYD flight. ~noon departure from SYD and any moderate delays means arriving at HND after public transport has shut down for the night.

 

[flightobserver]

With regards to the SYD-TYO flights, QF could probably save a frame by stringing it with the JNB flights i.e. SYD-JNB-SYD-TYO-SYD which would require 3 aircraft, vs 2 for TYO and 2 for JNB.

Speculating here, but I think the major retimings will occur on the MEL-LAX 747 route when AA starts flying to SYD; they will need 3 747's to do a week's worth of flying between Australia and Los Angeles. QF17 would also need to depart earlier, say midday or early afternoon to accommodate these changes.

 

[Mattg]

I wouldn't be surprised if QF26 HND-SYD became a daytime flight.

With regards to the SYD-TYO flights, QF could probably save a frame by stringing it with the JNB flights i.e. SYD-JNB-SYD-TYO-SYD which would require 3 aircraft, vs 2 for TYO and 2 for JNB.

This is indeed what they already do. The non-refurbished 747s seem to shuttle between Johannesburg and Tokyo.

Speculating here, but I think the major retimings will occur on the MEL-LAX 747 route when AA starts flying to SYD; they will need 3 747's to do a week's worth of flying between Australia and Los Angeles. QF17 would also need to depart earlier, say midday or early afternoon to accommodate these changes.

I suspect you are correct. My bet is that QF18 and possibly even QF96 May become daytime flights as well, with ~6pm arrival into SYD and ~7pm arrival into MEL respectively.

 

[hutch]

and doing it the other way (arrive HND ~10pm, depart ~midnight) just moves the problems to the ex-SYD flight. ~noon departure from SYD and any moderate delays means arriving at HND after public transport has shut down for the night.

I would like a day departure from Australia... I just suspect the 10pm arrival is too late.

 

[Himeno]

I wouldn't be surprised if QF26 HND-SYD became a daytime flight.

Haven't checked the BNE-NRT times for a while... It would work out if BNE-NRT was day north, night south, and SYD-HND was night north and day south. Then people have a choice of day and night AU-TYO flights in each direction.

I suspect you are correct. My bet is that QF18 and possibly even QF96 May become daytime flights as well, with ~6pm arrival into SYD and ~7pm arrival into MEL respectively.

The old QF8 was a day time LAX-SYD flight. How well did that work?
Something is going to have to change with JFK as well. Either carrying the BNE numbers through to JFK, or the JFK-LAX number changing and a grade change at LAX both ways.

 

[Himeno]

I would like a day departure from Australia... I just suspect the 10pm arrival is too late.

10 arrival is fine, as far as public transport goes, so long as nothing delays landside arrival past midnight.

Last trains into Tokyo from HND depart just after midnight. First trains back start around 5am.
Last buses depending on destination depart HND between 11pm and 130am. Buses back start between 330 and 5.
Between those times, only transport at taxis. The taxis are set fare, but between those hours, are between 8,000 and 12,000 JPY depending on destination within Tokyo prefecture.

 

[hutch]

10 arrival is fine, as far as public transport goes, so long as nothing delays landside arrival past midnight.

Last trains into Tokyo from HND depart just after midnight. First trains back start around 5am.
Last buses depending on destination depart HND between 11pm and 130am. Buses back start between 330 and 5.
Between those times, only transport at taxis. The taxis are set fare, but between those hours, are between 8,000 and 12,000 JPY depending on destination within Tokyo prefecture.

I'm thinking more along the line of travellers. Too late for dinner etc. It's nice to rock up around 6, go to the hotel and shower, before heading out for a dinner and a beer.

Whatever QF decides, it won't be perfect.

 

[hutch]

Haven't checked the BNE-NRT times for a while... It would work out if BNE-NRT was day north, night south, and SYD-HND was night north and day south. Then people have a choice of day and night AU-TYO flights in each direction.
The old QF8 was a day time LAX-SYD flight. How well did that work?
Something is going to have to change with JFK as well. Either carrying the BNE numbers through to JFK, or the JFK-LAX number changing and a grade change at LAX both ways.

I'm the other way, late night departure from bne and a day time return. Morning departure from syd with a night departure from hnd.

Night bne departure allows you to finish a day in the office, get a domestic flight to bne and then overnight to nrt.

 

[hutch]

The other thing is maybe QF switches HND to an A330? With the extra NRT flight, perhaps there is enough capacity with 2 A330?

 

[Himeno]

The other thing is maybe QF switches HND to an A330? With the extra NRT flight, perhaps there is enough capacity with 2 A330?

I hope not. I like my Premium Economy seats to Tokyo.

 

[Mattg]

The other thing is maybe QF switches HND to an A330? With the extra NRT flight, perhaps there is enough capacity with 2 A330?

The A330-300 and 747 actually have roughly the same number of seats in economy. The big difference is that the 747 has many more business class as well as premium economy seats. Tokyo, and especially Haneda is somewhat of a "premium" market for QF, so I doubt they'd want to cut the number of business class seats available to HND by half.

 

[Platinum A332]

I do not see a retime happening. Given slot ands regulatory restrictions in HND, QF need to arrive/depart between 10pm and 6am. The current schedule therefore works best to maximise connections to the rest of Japan, as well as be tailored to the premium business market on the route. The schedule also dovetails very well with JNB and SCL from an aircraft operational standpoint.

 

[Mattg]

I do not see a retime happening. Given slot ands regulatory restrictions in HND, QF need to arrive/depart between 10pm and 6am. The current schedule therefore works best to maximise connections to the rest of Japan, as well as be tailored to the premium business market on the route. The schedule also dovetails very well with JNB and SCL from an aircraft operational standpoint.

You're quite right. I think QF will have to re-time at least one flight to allow for the new SFO flights, though it may not be HND and may be one of the LAX flights instead.