Points Confusion

[LIssa2905]

Please, can somebody help me. We have been trying madly to accrue enough points for a trip to Paris from Brisbane. I have spent ours on various airline websites, have tried in vain to draw comparisons, but I am very very very confused.

We have approx 100000 points on a Gold Amex, About 30000 on an ANZ Rewards Visa, about 15000 Qantas Frequent Flyer Points, and 1000 Velocity Points.

I do not know if I should take advantage of the 25%bonus on Velocity Points - Is this a good deal, or would I be better transferring them to another airlines program (I have joined them all).

Any advice anyone can give on the best way to go with these points in terms of economy fares to Europe (probably not 'reward' seats, but 'any seat' options would be great.

 

[simongr]

If trying to get to Paris I would avoid transferring to Velocity as you have to use a partner award (Virgin Blue do not fly themselves to Paris from Oz) and their Partner awards are very expensive. You Might be able to push the points to SQ or VS to do the trip in economy.

 

[LIssa2905]

Thanks, what is 'VS', I know 'SQ' is Singapore Airlines. Can it be assumed that SQ is generally a good option in terms of redeeming points (ie that they are not on the expensive side) i guess we are looking for any seat rewards in economy and are not all that fussed about the other benefits. Thanks again

 

[StevePER]

Singapore Airlines would be a good choice if you could take advantage of a saver award, which depends on which aircraft type you are flying. Going to Paris, all SQ flights are operated by the 77W (source: Star Alliance timetable) so saver awards cannot be used. But if you were willing to fly elsewhere in Europe (eg Frankfurt, Rome, Manchester) then you could use a saver award. (EDIT: I believe this only applies to premium classes, economy should be available at the saver rate to all destinations)

A saver award from Brisbane to Europe is 47,500 points per person each way (points table here) but there's currently a 25% discount for online bookings (for travel before September?) making it 71,250 for a return trip. Normally the online discount is 15% making it 80,750 for a return.

On Velocity (flying Emirates) or Qantas it would be 128,000 for a return trip. I personally wouldn't bother with Velocity - it seems impossible to determine availability before transferring your points over.

VS is Virgin Atlantic - not sure how much they would be and you would be flying to London rather than Paris.

 

[crazydave98]

If trying to get to Paris I would avoid transferring to Velocity as you have to use a partner award (Virgin Blue do not fly themselves to Paris from Oz) and their Partner awards are very expensive. You Might be able to push the points to SQ or VS to do the trip in economy.

While true that Virgin Blue does not fly to Paris itself and that you have to redeem through partners (Emirates or Malaysian), it's stretching it to say they are "very expensive". For example with Qantas Classic Awards Sydney-Paris with 2 stops is 128,000 points. With Malaysian Airlines (through Velocity) it is 1 stop to Paris and 134,700 points and with Emirates it is 128,000 points. However, when you use Qantas you get one of their points for every point transferred from Amex. With Velociy you presently get 25% bonus points when you transfer. So it actually costs you a lot less American Express points to redeem via Velocity/Malaysian Airlines (107,760 points) and you get only a single stop, compared to redeeming with Qantas (128,000 points) with two stops.

Singapore Airlines do have some good redemption rates - for example 95,000 points for a Round-trip Economy Saver Award Ticket - but you cannot redeem Economy Saver Awards on Singapore Airlines B777-300ER or A380 with the new economy class product so you might find yourself unable to piece together a suitable itinerary or may have a very long layover in Singapore.

Of course if you transfer all your credit card points to Velocity now with the 25% bonus you also will have points left over to redeem on Virgin Blue/Pacific Blue short haul flights.

cheers

CrazyDave98

 

[simongr]

While true that Virgin Blue does not fly to Paris itself and that you have to redeem through partners (Emirates or Malaysian), it's stretching it to say they are "very expensive".

Singapore Airlines do have some good redemption rates - for example 95,000 points for a Round-trip Economy Saver Award Ticket - but you cannot redeem Economy Saver Awards on Singapore Airlines B777-300ER or A380 with the new economy class product so you might find yourself unable to piece together a suitable itinerary or may have a very long layover in Singapore.

Of course if you transfer all your credit card points to Velocity now with the 25% bonus you also will have points left over to redeem on Virgin Blue/Pacific Blue short haul flights.

cheers

CrazyDave98

I would not be using QF as a benchmark for award pricing.

I would also check on teh accuracy of the availability on the A380 as people have seen some saver awards on those aircraft..

It would also be handy to be able to get an accurate quote on the Velocity website of how much an award would cost if having to use partners...

 

[LIssa2905]

Wow, this is exactly the kind of info I don't seem to have been able to piece together myself. thank you.
So... with SQ if I was to fly into Frankfurt or Rome I could do so for 71,250 for a return trip if I booked online and travelled before september. That is incredible. Thank you so much.

 

[crazydave98]

It would also be handy to be able to get an accurate quote on the Velocity website of how much an award would cost if having to use partners...

These links have summary tables for 3 Velocity partners flying to Europe. As RickyRicardo notes in another thread we do not yet have an online calculator for all available routes. sorry - has to be via membership contact centre until we get that functionality.

Virgin Atlantic
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=227234

Malaysian Velocity - Malaysia Airlines

Emirates
Velocity - Emirates

This shows all possible routes with Velocity partners
Velocity -Interactive map

 

[StevePER]

Wow, this is exactly the kind of info I don't seem to have been able to piece together myself. thank you.
So... with SQ if I was to fly into Frankfurt or Rome I could do so for 71,250 for a return trip if I booked online and travelled before september. That is incredible. Thank you so much.

Details of the 25% discount are here. Book by September 15 for travel before September 30.

I've just realised I was talking rubbish about the limited destinations, that only applies in premium classes. For an economy award you should be able to go to Paris at the saver rate. (I've checked the Krisflyer site to confirm that this is possible).

One downside of SQ is the massive $571 fuel surcharge.

 

[simongr]

While true that Virgin Blue does not fly to Paris itself and that you have to redeem through partners (Emirates or Malaysian), it's stretching it to say they are "very expensive".

Just a quick comparison:

Virgin Atlantic Flying club - SYD-LHR-SYD = 180K points = 180K Amex points

Velocity - SYD-LHR-SYD = 384K points = 307K

That is 70% mark up over Virgin Atlantic on a carrier that is part of the same broader organisation...

 

[ANstar]

Just a quick comparison:

Virgin Atlantic Flying club - SYD-LHR-SYD = 180K points = 180K Amex points

Velocity - SYD-LHR-SYD = 384K points = 307K

That is 70% mark up over Virgin Atlantic on a carrier that is part of the same broader organisation...

I think the OP was actually after the Y figures and given VS don't fly to Paris, it's probably better to use Malaysia/Emirates as the redeemers.

also with Singapore Airlines, the taxes are VERY high.

 

[Nigelinoz]

Sorry to go slightly O/T here but the point about the different redemption rates for VS from flying club vs Velocity raises an interesting question in my mind.
That is, if I ,as a VS Flying Club member can earn points by flying Virgin Blue and have them credited to VS why do I bother having seperate VS and DJ accounts? what benefit is there?and why does Virgin group keep starting seperate clubs for each new airline,why don't they just create one Virgin FF scheme that lets people collect points on any Virgin group airline.

 

[simongr]

why do I bother having seperate VS and DJ accounts? what benefit is there?and why does Virgin group keep starting seperate clubs for each new airline,why don't they just create one Virgin FF scheme that lets people collect points on any Virgin group airline.

Two reasons -

1 - VS and DJ are separate legal entities and I think DJ is listed here in Oz so they are no more connected than BA and QF.

2 - And I think this is the main reason. Because Jo public dont understand the options that joining flying club could bring them so DJ can reduce the benefit to members without much reputation cost...

 

[LIssa2905]

Just a quick comparison:

Virgin Atlantic Flying club - SYD-LHR-SYD = 180K points = 180K Amex points

Velocity - SYD-LHR-SYD = 384K points = 307K

That is 70% mark up over Virgin Atlantic on a carrier that is part of the same broader organisation...

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense, do you mean that if I redeem my Amex points directly with Virgin Atlantic I could to SYD-LHR-SYD for 180K points, however if I convert my Amex points to velocity points I will have to pay 384K points for travel on a Virgin Atlantic Flight? I am very confused. Can I redeem direct from Amex to Virgin Atlantic? Thank you again for helping, Melissa

 

[Baysider]

So... with SQ if I was to fly into Frankfurt or Rome I could do so for 71,250 for a return trip if I booked online and travelled before september. That is incredible.

... and once there you can probably access super budget European airlines such as bmi or Ryanair to complete the journey, see www.bestflights.com.au .

 

[simongr]

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense, do you mean that if I redeem my Amex points directly with Virgin Atlantic I could to SYD-LHR-SYD for 180K points, however if I convert my Amex points to velocity points I will have to pay 384K points for travel on a Virgin Atlantic Flight? I am very confused. Can I redeem direct from Amex to Virgin Atlantic? Thank you again for helping, Melissa

You can do a points transfer to Virgin Atlantic exactly the same way that you do one to Velocity (except for velocity you get the 25% bonus) and then you can book a fligth through Virgin Atlantic.

 

[jakeseven7]

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense, do you mean that if I redeem my Amex points directly with Virgin Atlantic I could to SYD-LHR-SYD for 180K points, however if I convert my Amex points to velocity points I will have to pay 384K points for travel on a Virgin Atlantic Flight? I am very confused. Can I redeem direct from Amex to Virgin Atlantic? Thank you again for helping, Melissa

1) yes you are correct
2) yes you can straight from MR to virgin atlantic

i would advise against transferring to velocity if your intention is international travel, the rates are not worth it even with the bonus IMO.

 

[ANstar]

i would advise against transferring to velocity if your intention is international travel, the rates are not worth it even with the bonus IMO.

Depends - compared to QF they are similar (ie the EK J rates etc)

Compared to Sq and VS's programs - then yes, it is poor value.

 

[Nigelinoz]

1) yes you are correct
2) yes you can straight from MR to virgin atlantic

i would advise against transferring to velocity if your intention is international travel, the rates are not worth it even with the bonus IMO.

Even with the bonus I agree that it would appear to be throwing away lots of points transferring to Velocity when you can do it straight to VS.
If we're talking SYD to LHR there may even be an argument for going with VS premium economy at 126,000 points vs the 180,000 for upper class.
(Not that I've tried VS PE though)

 

[edman]

If we're talking SYD to LHR there may even be an argument for going with VS premium economy at 126,000 points vs the 180,000 for upper class.
(Not that I've tried VS PE though)

I found premium ecconomy great for a HKG trip last year, but did return in upper class. For what seems like a fairly small difference in points I would suggest upper class particularly with the extra leg to LHR, unless your points won't stretch that far.

Flying Club has had 15% bonuses in the past, last one expired Oct 31 I think from memory. Not as good as Velocity bonus but still better value considering the cheaper redemption rate.