Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[ajw373]

That is what they are saying, no points means no PS points bonus.

ejb

Read it they weren't getting any status credits for some stupid reason. Maybe too early in the day.

 

[medhead]

Folks, just to chime back in.

AFF is a passionate community and there will be times where I’m not in a position to comment on all issues. However, rest assured that we do take on the feedback in our internal discussions, and there is certainly plenty of it here. So if there isn’t a direct response, this doesn’t mean that nothing has been done with it.

We’ve improved the revised policy by also allowing arrivals access, particularly where the general airline convention for lounges is access on departure. We were aware of BA Gold lounge access, however, as noted by others in the thread, BA Gold has additional restrictions compared to anytime access for Platinums. Acknowledge it allows competitor flyer access in some circumstances, however it is not the same as anytime access for Platinums – one must be travelling.

Understand that the adjustment we made to the lounge access policy does not fully satisfy all, however there are many comments here and from our own channels that support the view that it is a reasonable outcome.

Thought we ought to add a little more cheer to this thread and signpost some good things on their way! Alas, we’re not quite in a position to reveal full details yet, however closer to launch we will be able to discuss this further. FWIW, I’ve literally tasted some of those items just moments ago

Just to clarify, Neil Perry changes will be coming to the Domestic J lounges.

I appreciate the feedback and also that you can't preempt coming announcements.

I really just wanted to reiterate a couple of points that your response doesn't seem to acknowledge.

Firstly, about the must be traveling thing. I'm not 100% sure I understand you correctly. But it seems to be that there is a concern about Anytime Access being used when people aren't flying. There are also reports of people getting into the domestic business lounge using anytime access, something which isn't a published benefit at all. So if these really are the concerns then surely it is up to Qantas to 1) actually enforce it's own published benefits instead of generously ignoring the rules; 2) adopt a tighter interpretation of "travelling" or change travelling to "flying". Instead of fixing Qantas' failure on these points in relation to anytime access the answer seems to be to cancel the benefit altogether.

The other thing that Qantas seems to be totally missing is the loyalty that Anytime access engenders. It says that Qantas recognises that sometimes, for a range of reasons, people just have to fly on a different airline but Qantas still values all the other flying that those people do with Qantas.

At the end of the day all I want when I fly is lounge access and a shower sometimes so I can feel clean after a long day. Gold status and the Qantas club provide this. Anything else is icing on top. I currently have 100 self funded flights a year (+ work flights), 90% of which go to Qantas. With anytime access I get what I want all the time. Without anytime access I then have to get what I want by flying more with other airlines. If the people at the top think removing anytime access means that I'm going to fly 100% with Qantas group then they are totally ignoring the fact that Qantas does not fly everywhere I need to fly and that I do not always get to choose who I fly with.

The other point is the value of my flying, at the moment it is cost sensitive, but I am on a good and improving wicket. I was projecting using increasingly more flexible fares over the next 2 to 3 years eventually, to say one return business flight a week. So it is going to be easy for me to maintain gold with 2 airlines and get what I want 100% of the times that I fly.

Then there is also the situation with Qantas "Group"; Qantas is increasingly forcing us to fly on Jetstar. Yet the Qantas Club does not open for Jetstar flights. If Qantas values getting all these flights from platinum flyers then how about providing the supposed benefits when you force us to fly on other parts of Qantas Group.

I do not consider myself... OR other SG and WP's OR QP Members to be leeches.

I ALSO pay market rates for my QF airfares.... I also fly enough to acheive WP. (Like 1,000s of others) I think it is retarded for someone to say/post that SG's and WP's are "leeches" for being in the QP.

I think it cuts both ways, didn't you call paid QC members leeches? No matter what Qantas has see the market rate for QC access at X SC or Y dollars. We can argue about where certain groups should be given access or not. But having been given the access neither group are leeches, IMO.

After an hour catching up with the thread. My only other comment is that I fail to see how it is petulant to rarely fly internationally and hence see little value in F check in and F lounge access. Sorry Simongr I don't have the same "wants" as you when flying, trying to keep something that is valuable for my flying needs is not petulant.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Then there is also the situation with Qantas "Group"; Qantas is increasingly forcing us to fly on Jetstar. Yet the Qantas Club does not open for Jetstar flights. If Qantas values getting all these flights from platinum flyers then how about providing the supposed benefits when you force us to fly on other parts of Qantas Group.

Very good point.

As noted in another thread, l did PER-SYD on Wednesday. Came back from a FIFO job into Perth Airport around ~17:00 (give or take 1 hour) and could not check in until 21:00. Had to pay $10 to store my luggage whilst l went to the PER QC, or could have sat in the PER Terminal for 4 hours, which was like a ghost town, and twiddled my thumbs...
The 2 hour check in time limit can be very frustrating.

OT; In all honesty, l try to avoid Jetstar whenever l can.

 

[Australian]

Qantas is increasingly forcing us to fly on Jetstar. Yet the Qantas Club does not open for Jetstar flights. If Qantas values getting all these flights from platinum flyers then how about providing the supposed benefits when you force us to fly on other parts of Qantas Group.

Very good point.

But that's what they have done for Plat (ie, recognise JQ/3K) under the revised access rules.

What i think is more important is:

I do not always get to choose who I fly with.

When you're flying and clients are paying, you can't always choose the carrier - so, if you've otherwise been loyal and putting YOUR bookings (whether self-funded or directing your discretionary company travel funding towards QF) to gain platinum, why should you be deprived of those benefits when clients (or even your own work, if you're a self-funded Plat) 'make' you fly on another carrier.

that's what makes me feel most uncomfortable about denying platinum members access.

that's why i can't see why a limited number of guest passes (that you can use on yourself!), or - dare i say it - even offering 'anytime access' as a paid annual option to those at Platinum level aren't options.

 

[oz_mark]

But that's what they have done for Plat (ie, recognise JQ/3K) under the revised access rules.

Accessing the Qantas Club when on a Jetstar flight only works when the Qantas Club is actually open. For example, in Darwin, the Qantas Club can be well shut at the time of the Jetstar flights.

 

[bossreggie]

I think it cuts both ways, didn't you call paid QC members leeches? No matter what Qantas has see the market rate for QC access at X SC or Y dollars. We can argue about where certain groups should be given access or not. But having been given the access neither group are leeches, IMO.

I hope my post didn't read that way. My point was that IF.. (and I think I summed up at the end of my initial post) I repeat..IF there were "leeches" then putting a $$ value it.... probably would not be SG's and WP's who have spent a lot of $$$ and BIS to acheive the status.

I am a VERY loyal customer of QANTAS and as I am totally self funded then I hate to see benefits diluted. I can direct my spend anywhere. I have NEVER flown DJ before... HOWEVER.... since this announcement I have now booked my first flight on them. I am going to see what it is like. The PE fare was within $100 of the QF J fare and I get lounge access so I am looking elsewhere.

For me personally... The 3 major benefits of WP over SG have been the F Lounge Access when flying TT in J. (F not offered by QF) AND... The ability to guest people into the DOM J lounges when travelling with me. Anytime lounge access which I have used a few times.

Once the benefits of WP over SG are diluted too much... I will be happy to spread my spend over a couple of FF programs and just be SG in them both.

 

[medhead]

I hope my post didn't read that way. My point was that IF.. (and I think I summed up at the end of my initial post) I repeat..IF there were "leeches" then putting a $$ value it.... probably would not be SG's and WP's who have spent a lot of $$$ and BIS to acheive the status.

It was probably a bit early in the morning for me to be lucid. No ill will intended. But I think I don't agree with you IF. Reading now I realise it is only an IF, hence I shouldn't have got on my high horse.

 

[djfuzz]

Accessing the Qantas Club when on a Jetstar flight only works when the Qantas Club is actually open. For example, in Darwin, the Qantas Club can be well shut at the time of the Jetstar flights.

This goes for the remaining WP benefits too - no point accessing the F lounge when travelling on JQ if QF closes it due to a QF flight being delayed (kind of defeats the purpose of the lounge for those delayed QF pax too!).

 

[Oneworldplus2]

...IF there were "leeches" then putting a $$ value it.... probably would not be SG's and WP's who have spent a lot of $$$ and BIS to acheive the status.

I look at a ticket sale like this (for this example, a $100 SYD-BNE ticket) broken down as follows, hypothetical of course;

$10 fuel
$30 wages
$20 tax
$10 profit
$10 GST
$10 Aircraft maintenance
$5 lounge
$5 Misc tax

 

[bossreggie]

I look at a ticket sale like this (for this example, a $100 SYD-BNE ticket) broken down as follows, hypothetical of course;

$10 fuel
$30 wages
$20 tax
$10 profit
$10 GST
$10 Aircraft maintenance
$5 lounge
$5 Misc tax

I wonder what the breakdown would be for a J ticket @ $500. Several of those hypothetical costs would remain unchanged.

I'm very happy for QANTAS to make a big profit on my J and F airfares. Just don't reward me with something then take it away!!

I wonder if the "enhancemants" could have been introduced on a staggered basis coinciding with the end of the individual's status reassessment?

 

[samh004]

I wonder if the "enhancemants" could have been introduced on a staggered basis coinciding with the end of the individual's status reassessment?

Such a path would surely confuse lounge staff and lead to many more arguments than needed. A blanket scheme is much easier, and it’s a fair bit off, they could have set a date much sooner…

 

[MatF]

I presume the timing is related to the 6 months notice as per the T&C's:

3.2 Qantas will use best efforts to advise Members of material changes to these Terms and Conditions and, where such changes will limit Benefits:
(a) where the Benefit is provided by Qantas, to give Members at least 6 months' notice;

 

[cele]

First post from a long time lurker – hope I’m not jumping into a lion’s den here given this thread has generated 600 posts in 9 days!

Something random - BA has been cited as one FF program which offers anytime access to its top tier FFs, but closer to home, CX MPC also offers anytime access to its diamond members. As others have pointed out, CX tends to treat OW elites & MPC members very very well. Even as a SG, I've received upgrades on CX metal multiple times for both myself and my partner (flying together) and they have also honoured benefits advertised as QF only, like increased baggage allowance.

Having said that, in most cases, MPC diamond is harder to achieve than WP and there is no soft landing (can go straight from diamond to green); the former also applies for BA executive club (I understand its 1,500 tier points/SCs to achieve/renew gold) This leads to a question another forum member alluded to earlier: would members be willing to trade off increased benefits (like restoration of anytime access, service fee waivers, occasional op-up, generally more leniency from QF) for a higher qualification hurdle? Perhaps one way QF can move is to increase qualification hurdles for SG & WP while simultaneously improve benefits for both levels.

To me, it feels the core issue is the lack of recognition we generally receive from QF for our loyalty. The loss of “anytime access” is merely a continuation of this and it hits the domestic only guys particularly hard. In general, I think the advertised benefits for WP are fine, particularly for international travellers, but it seems like we need some assurance benefits will not be further eroded or very least, there will be some sort of quid pro quo when benefits are modified. Red Roo – if you’re listening, improving ‘benefits’ is not a one way street – as other have stated, there are many real enhancements which could benefit QF’s bottom line (e.g. confirmed points upgrades; its not cheap to upgrade from discount economy!)

QF could have ‘softened’ the impact of removing anytime access if they had, for e.g., simultaneously announced food & beverage improvements or other upgrades in the lounge – like they did with intl F lounge; personally, I think the QP and even Dom J lounge is a joke (e.g. no food in syd lounge by 8pm? I find the food offering much better in the DJ lounge though its getting a bit tired now) and if QF made some concrete steps to differentiate the Dom J lounge from QP, WPs might be more willing to accept the loss of the anytime access. Even as WP, I frequently fly DJ when travelling on my own account because I don’t’ feel any love from QF (lounge access not an issue as I have PP). As a velocity red member, DJ has held open a check in counter for me on the last SYD-MEL; QF on the other hand, has denied me check in on MEL-SYD even though I arrived 20 mins before departure w/o bags, as a WP and fare paying J passenger!

Red Roo – if there is any feedback I can provide, Neil Perry party pies aren’t going to make your most loyal customers spend more with you. It all about recognising and respecting your WPs….

 

[PineappleSkip]

3.2 Qantas will use best efforts to advise Members of material changes to these Terms and Conditions and, where such changes will limit Benefits:
(a) where the Benefit is provided by Qantas, to give Members at least 6 months' notice;

This clause was the subject of some discussion about 300 posts ago, its debatable whether the change is 'material' in the context of QFF, and a clause about "will use best endeavours" isn't much of a promise:-|

Oh and welcome to AFF, cele

Cheers skip

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Welcome to AFF Cele.

Some very good points.

Some AFF WP members have also said in the past that CX treats them better than QF. JohnK has been upgraded to F I believe a few times on CX.

 

[MatF]

This clause was the subject of some discussion about 300 posts ago, its debatable whether the change is 'material' in the context of QFF, and a clause about "will use best endeavours" isn't much of a promise:-|

Ahhh, I must admit I haven't been keeping up

I'd consider it a material change limiting benefits, personally, though now that arrivals access has been reinstated, I'm not too concerned with the incremental impact.
The trend does still concern me.

 

[bossreggie]

Welcome to AFF Cele... OMG... What a well thought out and relevant first post. I seem to recall my first post as "Hi" or something similar.

Let's hope Red Roo will reply once again and address some of the points members have made. I noticed RR was online about 30 minutes ago.

 

[docjames]

Interesting thread as always, and one thought came to mind with all the talk of "instant upgrades" for platinums.

Given QFF have essentially put a price on each seat via anyseat awards, and they already have points costs for ODUs, surely it cant be that hard to allow Plat members an upgrade at the time of booking, based on a points fee that equates to either a % of the anyseat points at the time of booking, or a lesser point amount of the anyseat rate on a given flight, or the ODU amount to allow for "anytime" upgrades. (Now there's a nice QFF Plat benefit: "Anytime Upgrades").

QF will still be getting revenue for the upgrade as the QFF arm will be "paying" them, so it's not a "free" upgrade, but priority for the WPs (not having to list in the lounge) and increased availability (ie. at time of booking if any seats available in cabin). SC/point earn could remain per the booked fare class.

Sorry if I havent explained that clearly, in whcih case i'll try again!

 

[samh004]

First post from a long time lurker – hope I’m not jumping into a lion’s den here given this thread has generated 600 posts in 9 days!

Something random - BA has been cited as one FF program which offers anytime access to its top tier FFs, but closer to home, CX MPC also offers anytime access to its diamond members. As others have pointed out, CX tends to treat OW elites & MPC members very very well. Even as a SG, I've received upgrades on CX metal multiple times for both myself and my partner (flying together) and they have also honoured benefits advertised as QF only, like increased baggage allowance.

A very insightful first post!

I just wanted to note that while MPC is very loyal, and yes they do have much higher qualification rates, they really only have 1 home base, 1 airport with 3 lounges in it, compared to QF’s Australian lounge network that is quite a bit bigger, so perhaps it’s easier to be generous when there’s less outgoing costs as it were.

They probably have about the same number of international lounges, although QF teams up with BA a lot, while I don’t think CX do.

I do agree that they understand what loyalty means a lot more, although in that case, loyalty to the alliance, not really to Cathay Pacific if you’re a 1W elite ;p

 

[Australian]

either a % of the anyseat points at the time of booking, or a lesser point amount of the anyseat rate on a given flight, or the ODU amount to allow for "anytime" upgrades. (Now there's a nice QFF Plat benefit: "Anytime Upgrades")

as opposed to "anytime" enhancements ... :-|

at least these overhauls only happen every now and again, just think what it'll be like once DJ gets their stuff together ... although i hope that will result in a race to the top, then ... well the other way round :/