Planes collide on tarmac at Melbourne Airport

[erkpod]

They are reporting facts, one plane was Virgin the other Jetstar, nothing more.

2 planes hit each other. For the purposes of a news report, does it matter which airline/s are involved? It might make a difference if there was an editorial attached. If two buses hit each other, would they mention the names of the bus companies?

It reminds me of a recent request from the local police for information. A guy was assaulted in a car park on a major road. They didn't mention the same of the premises. Maybe they thought that if you saw something, you know where it happened.

 

[Simo]

Lots of paperwork for the pilots or ground crew if being pushed

 

[pauly7]

Slow news day was lead story on 7 news... They are slanting it to appear to be Virgins fault. Will be interesting to see the official verdict.

Do Virgin even have their own ground crew to do push backs etc? Or do they contract that out as well?

 

[mannej]

Part 2...

Well done...

 

[UP4014]

2 planes hit each other. For the purposes of a news report, does it matter which airline/s are involved? It might make a difference if there was an editorial attached. If two buses hit each other, would they mention the names of the bus companies?

Seems they do, although I did only a simple search for it re 2 bus collision.

Kempsey bus crash twenty years later - ABC Canberra - Australian Broadcasting Corporation


Matt

 

[samh004]

Pretty nasty damage to both. Think I might go get the popcorn

 

[Jamesl]

Something I posted on another forum...

VA have their own rampies doing the domestic side. Now lets have a look here, there are multiple failings here and a bit of the ownership needs to be placed elsewhere.

The aircraft parking conditions are a major factor here, VGR was pulling into D2 and YID was pushing off E1. Now the first thing to look at here is that E1 and D2 can not be clearly seen from either bay due to the new terminal expansion. There is a light that says that an aircraft is pushing however not arriving.


Second issue, ATC had cleared the driver to push once VGR had parked, now I refer back to the last paragraph and the driver, acting under instruction of the ATCO would have trouble seeing VGR and thus should of had the knowledge to separate the clearances.


Third issue, the JQ pilot SHOULD of advised over the GND that they were holding short of the bay due to what ever the cause was. Thus ATC could of canx the clearance for YID and recleared once VGR proceeded to the full stop position.


Fourth issue, not as relevant however the current works on at D6 has played some part to this with the change in pushback procedures.


It's all well and easy to place sole blame on the driver but understand the facts before you got and solely accuse a single party for all issues.

 

[Mal]

I blame the unions. I'm sure they were implicit in this whole episode.

 

[flyer999]

Herald Sun article "Mr Cousins estimated the damage bill to both aircraft at $2 million-$3 million and blamed the accident on Virgin's decision to replace licensed engineers with lower cost ramp staff to conduct aircraft reversals known as "push backs".

 

[pauly7]

Herald Sun article "Mr Cousins estimated the damage bill to both aircraft at $2 million-$3 million and blamed the accident on Virgin's decision to replace licensed engineers with lower cost ramp staff to conduct aircraft reversals known as "push backs".

What a surprise that comment

Virgin have had a major drive on cost cutting... When did they start doing this out of interest?

 

[Simo]

What a surprise that comment

Virgin have had a major drive on cost cutting... When did they start doing this out of interest?

Every business is always trying to cut costs.

If they could get monkey's to do it they would so they only had to pay peanuts but the unions would kick up a stink as they would be non union staff.

 

[pauly7]

Every business is always trying to cut costs.

If they could get monkey's to do it they would so they only had to pay peanuts but the unions would kick up a stink as they would be non union staff.

Haha totally agree I was only asking because of the recent press about Virgin taking the knife out quite publicly to cut costs (just before they announced their loss for the period).

Had no idea whether this was a part of that recent drive or just a general part and parcel of cutting costs by them - as you say that happens in business all the time.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Every business is always trying to cut costs.

If they could get monkey's to do it they would so they only had to pay peanuts but the unions would kick up a stink as they would be non union staff.

You may be able to train a monkey to ride a bike but you can't train one to fix it so I don't think Bubbles the chimp would last long at heavy maintenance.

If ramp staff are in a union it would be TWU however I really doubt contract staff are because a lot are casuals & there is a high turnover or staff so they're probably not in the job long enough to join.

 

[Jamesl]

What a surprise that comment

Virgin have had a major drive on cost cutting... When did they start doing this out of interest?

It has been happening for years.

 

[Boris spatsky]

markis10, am I correct in suggesting that your hypothesis number one indicates that the airlines might both ask the Commonwealth of Australia to have its insurers cough up for almost all the damage bill to both aircraft?

Naturally all concerned would have to wait the usual 10 months or so for the ATSB to issue its report. It will be interesting if these matters are settled behind closed doors or whether (unusually in Australia) such a dispute ended up in the commercial courts, probably the Supreme Court of Victoria.

Why would the Commonwealth have anything to do with it??????

 

[Melburnian1]

Boris spatsky, if you re-read my post, you'll see that I referred to markis10's first explanation that Air Traffic Control may be responsible - I stress 'may.'

They are Commonwealth employees - hence, if the usual principle of vicarious liability applied, the Commonwealth could be left to foot the bill or a substantial portion of it.

All this is in the future. The ATSB report will take well in excess of six months to be made public.

 

[Boris spatsky]

Boris spatsky, if you re-read my post, you'll see that I referred to markis10's first explanation that Air Traffic Control may be responsible - I stress 'may.'

They are Commonwealth employees - hence, if the usual principle of vicarious liability applied, the Commonwealth could be left to foot the bill or a substantial portion of it.

All this is in the future. The ATSB report will take well in excess of six months to be made public.

The final responsibility rests with the ground crew in this instance, regardless of whether ATC gave them incorrect instructions or not. Airservices will not have to foot the bill.

 

[Melburnian1]

Why don't we wait for the comprehensive ATSB report and any subsequent discussions, or, heaven forbid, litigation between the various stakeholders? If the matter ever went to court, a judge may well determine that there was shared liability. markis10's initial hypothesis is arguable and may turn out to be correct. Like most of us, we're relying at this stage on a few online photos and a growing body of commentary, which may or may not be the facts.

 

[markis10]

The final responsibility rests with the ground crew in this instance, regardless of whether ATC gave them incorrect instructions or not. Airservices will not have to foot the bill.

Not sure if I agree, under ICAO Pans-ATM, Chapter 7.1 responsibility rests with the controller as does liability (which is referenced within the Australian Air Traffic Services Manual), that only defers to the crew doing the pushback if they go outside the clearance area. No doubt we will find out eventually who did what.

 

[JessicaTam]

The final responsibility rests with the ground crew in this instance, regardless of whether ATC gave them incorrect instructions or not. Airservices will not have to foot the bill.

I am not sure how you can apportion blame so soon. Lets wait for some facts to come out, shall we!