Plane crash at Essendon DFO

[straitman]

Reading back through the thread, all the information is there. Speculation about the critical engine is just that and from what jb747 has posted and what the King Air pilots I have spoken to have said it appears that he should have been able to fly away on one engine. (I had coffee with a bunch of ex 32 Sqn pilots this morning)

I am more inclined to ask whether the Auto Feather worked on the dead engine. There has been TV footage of one propellor being craned from the wreckage and the propellor was not feathered but also didn't seem sufficiently bent to have been an engine under power. Once again though, it is just speculation.

Apart from more rudder would a slight aileron input (roll to operating engine) be necessary to maintain level straight flight?

Yes. Roll and yaw are each a secondary effect of the controls that do the other.

 

[QF WP]

This story gives a lot of information about the 4 victims and the pilot: Melbourne plane crash: Max Quartermain reported engine failure

I saw one video (dashcam) a lot closer to the scene of the accident and it gave a good view of the plane flying over (for a couple of seconds) before crashing. I'm sure this with other eyewitness accounts will assist the ATSB in their investigations.

Thanks for the links jb747. That made for informative reading (the Advance Airlines crash in 1980), not that I understood much of the technical data.

 

[jb747]

And influences the size of the vertical fin?

And the rudder...and its amount of travel.

Apart from more rudder would a slight aileron input (roll to operating engine) be necessary to maintain level straight flight?

As we've discussed before, any control input or motion will have some form of secondary effect. Sometimes a very strong one.

An engine failure will give yaw. That immediately means one wing is effectively moving faster than the other, so it makes more lift, and you get roll. Quite a lot. You really don't want to 'fly by numbers'...you simply correct whatever you can see. If the aircraft yaws, then it needs rudder to stop the yaw. It then needs aileron to get the wings back to level, or to keep them there. The correct amount of rudder will have the aileron input at neutral (or close to it). Trim that rudder input, and it should stay there hands off. The rudder (and trim) will need to be adjusted with any power or speed change, but it should be quite stable in a steady state. You'll be getting drag from the dead engine, so it needs to be feathered ASAP. The rudder will also be producing drag. Any turn will reduce the climb rate...so the cleaning up straight ahead is always the best idea. If it's flying there should be no hurry to get back down.

One thing that bothers me a bit about this is the reported two mayday calls. They really shouldn't have gotten to the top of the list in the time frame.

 

[Hvr]

This comment really annoys me:

Nancy Tedesco, an Esprit store manager at the DFO, says retailers had been concerned for a long time about how close the airport's runways are to shops and warehouses.

The runways are not close to the shops. The shops are close to the runways!

The airport has been there since the 1920s, the shops came 70+ years later.

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

This comment really annoys me:



The runways are not close to the shops. The shops are close to the runways!

The airport has been there since the 1920s, the shops came 70+ years later.

Couldnt agree more.

And let's not forget the retail that has opened up near the original terminal, where a couple of supermarkets now operate.

 

[Skyring]

One thing that bothers me a bit about this is the reported two mayday calls. They really shouldn't have gotten to the top of the list in the time frame.

Speculation, but maybe the presumably busy pilot wasn't the one making the call?

 

[whatmeworry]

Why do you think that? Because it had turned away from the runway direction?

Procedurally, cleaning up and accelerating straight ahead is the best solution. Turning will always give a reduced, and perhaps negative, rate of climb.

Some initial reports was the plane turning left and presumably back to only empty place to crash (the airport). Other reports describe it as veering left.

Essendon air crash: Investigators scour plane wreckage, find 'interesting facets'

 

[Bundy Bear]

Very sad story, I guess anything can end your life in a second.

With the crash happening so fast after take off I would have to wonder if the plane didn't sound right on the take off roll.

I know Jetgo were flying out of Essendon Airport I wonder if they will be able to use Melbourne Tullamarine until Essendon reopens.

 

[rainbowgirl]

"The plane had taken off from Melbourne’s second-biggest airport at Essendon"

This is a quote from the US article linked in TheBOSman's post. Is the quote accurate?

 

[AviatorInsight]

One thing that bothers me a bit about this is the reported two mayday calls. They really shouldn't have gotten to the top of the list in the time frame.

This is exactly my sentiment since the start of the speculation. It goes against the fundamental rule of any emergency...fly the plane! In the simulator, whenever the Checkie asks me a question, my first response is always, "fly the plane!". Even to questions if I'm buying the beer afterwards in the pub, "Yes, and fly the plane".

Speculation, but maybe the presumably busy pilot wasn't the one making the call?

If not the pilot, then who? The King Air is a designed to be flown single pilot, hence the one pilot and 4 passengers. ATC are able to hit the crash button to initiate emergency services if they can see an aircraft in distress, but I've never known them to put out a mayday call.

 

[QF WP]

One thing that bothers me a bit about this is the reported two mayday calls. They really shouldn't have gotten to the top of the list in the time frame.

From the story linked in whatmeworry's post it says:

But Mr Hood said those calls only consisted of the word "mayday" and did not contain information about the cause of the crash.

So the pilot could have keyed the mic and simply said "mayday", then turned his concentration back to flying the plane (as he should), then it will be interesting to find out when the second call was made (if at all) and by whom. I tend to discount that statement as well - but the tapes of the contact between Tower and pilot will be instructive on that point.

 

[fairbasa]

Irrespective of how easy it would be to get out a Mayday, sounds like JB is saying he had much bigger fish to fry in that short window of time and perhaps his attention should have been directed elsewhere. What's that saying?

- Aviate
- Navigate
...
- Communicate

 

[Skyring]

If not the pilot (making the mayday call), then who? The King Air is a designed to be flown single pilot, hence the one pilot and 4 passengers. ATC are able to hit the crash button to initiate emergency services if they can see an aircraft in distress, but I've never known them to put out a mayday call.

One pilot, certainly, but one of the passengers would have been sitting beside him, and it is not unknown for wealthy American golfers to be pilots in their own right.

Not saying that's what happened - speculation is arid and pointless without the facts - but a mayday call is not inconsistent with a pilot doing everything to save his plane and his passengers. We should not be saying the pilot should have done this or that, or had other priorities. The facts will emerge as the investigators do their jobs.

 

[clazman]

Did I hear correctly, he took delivery of this aircraft in the last 7 days?

 

[meloz]

Are the turbo props contra rotating?

I think you mean counter rotating.

Meloz

 

[TheBOSman]

"The plane had taken off from Melbourne’s second-biggest airport at Essendon"

This is a quote from the US article linked in TheBOSman's post. Is the quote accurate?

I personally am not sure, depends on the criteria. Avalon likely sees more public passenger traffic with JQ, but perhaps Essendon sees more actual traffic with cargo and private flights in addition to the smaller operators present? It was an Associated Press article partly.

 

[Quickstatus]

I think you mean counter rotating.

Meloz

Ah yes good pickup. contra rotating commonly used for common axial (same shaft) propellers and counter rotating for separate shafts. As the discussion was about Beech Kings the meaning carried itself. It's OK

 

[coriander]

Is there any requirement for "boutique commercial" pilots to spend time in a simulator?

 

[whatmeworry]

Experts say that pilots not trained for 'feathering' failure.

A remarkably similar fatal crash in 2001, referenced by air crash investigators at a press conference on Wednesday, involved another King Air whose engine failed. Its propeller did not feather, and it drifted to the left before crashing.

Police said on Tuesday "catastrophic engine failure" may have contributed to the crash. Modern aircraft are designed to still take off safely even if one engine fails – but not if both the engine and feathering system fail at the same time.

Pilots do not train for such a scenario because failures of both engine and feathering are considered so unlikely, Mr Dell said.

Pilots untrained to deal with 'feathering' failure that may have caused DFO crash: experts

 

[Quickstatus]

Same "expert" says unless failed engine's props feathers, it's almost "impossible to fly".
Hmm Really?. Interestingly his credentials does not include "pilot of Beechcraft"
2 engine failure?. What can cause a 2 (multi) engine failure?. In recent times BA38, BA9, US1549, TNA235
Here is a list of aircraft that became gliders:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_flights_that_required_gliding