PED's on/off during various flight stages - Why?

[irv]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

Not very, but when you have multiple devices it is extremely annoying and time consuming. That, however, is beside the point. It doesn't matter how hard the task is, it matters whether there is a purpose to it. I find the attitude of following all instructions from authority without question annoying. There has to be a reason for something to exist, or for something to happen. If there is no reason, then why, must I ask, should it exist? And further, why should I do it? Indeed the argument of appealing to authority is extremely troubling to me.

If there has been an accident where there was a link to mobile phone interference (in flight mode), I would be glad if you can direct me to where I can find the report so I can read it and make conclusions for myself. If it is true, then I am happy to turn off my devices in the future.

I think the answer is their house, their rules, probably what applies in most of our abodes.

 

[drsmithy]

So it boils down to whether you're a follow instructions person, or a rebel without a cause person?

You forgot the "apathy" option.

 

[medhead]

Shopping might be a soul destroying activity but sometimes useful information is gained. They're back!

View attachment 9727


Sent from the Throne

 

[Hvr]

Shopping might be a soul destroying activity but sometimes useful information is gained. They're back!

View attachment 9727




Sent from the Throne

Looks like it could be related to Gremlins.

 

[medhead]

Looks like it could be related to Gremlins.

Could be. But Furby about the only toy that must be turned off at all times during flight. I thought they no longer existed but looks like they're having a revival.

 

[Flashback]

Could be. But Furby about the only toy that must be turned off at all times during flight. I thought they no longer existed but looks like they're having a revival.

Funnily enough I noticed them in the window of an Argos store over here a few days ago and my wife said "Oh no! What are they doing back!". $80, wow.

 

[medhead]

Funnily enough I noticed them in the window of an Argos store over here a few days ago and my wife said "Oh no! What are they doing back!". $80, wow.

$80 on special as well!!

 

[Fruitcake]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I see it a lot on flights. I'm of the beliefs that a phone, or even 20 phones won't bring a plane down so I just say nothing!

Especially on a 767 with iPads, where you have 200+ iPads around you happily chatting away to the mobile network.

 

[epsc]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

Whether it was 'fine' depends on what you set out to achieve. The guy's conduct was ill-mannered, but that's all - it wasn't dangerous. Most of us don't see it as our role to correct the manners of others, but we have to be prepared to accept the consequences if we choose to do a spot of self-initiated policing, as it is seldom received well.

 

[markis10]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

It's somewhat ironic to hear the news that the wreckage of the missing plane in SE QLD was located mainly through the triangulation of one of the mobiles from the passengers that was left on and survived the crash.

 

[hardtolose]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

Why is it that some people think they are above the rules? I hope they are never one who finds out, too late, that they were wrong and only their phone survives the crash. Good on you Austman for trying. I did too, but had a slightly better result. Mind you, my seat companion never did become my first best friend!!!!!!!!

 

[jb747]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I wonder how many of the people who have commented on their belief that the rules are unnecessary are aero engineers? 'Cos if you aren't your opinion isn't really worth much is it.....

I have had people removed from aircraft because of these rules. I'm not interested in interpretations of them, or arguments over whether off is standby, or red is green. Is it really that hard?

If the rules change, then we can all obey some new rules, but until then, surely we can play the game the way it is right now.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I wonder how many of the people who have commented on their belief that the rules are unnecessary are aero engineers? 'Cos if you aren't your opinion isn't really worth much is it.....

People will always beg to differ. (Cue the democracy and freedom of speech argument, plus all the ad hominem fallacies and so forth).

The board demographics are probably not aero engineers, but apart from that there are some pilots (helicopters, in training, non-commercial aviation), radio-communications experts, other kinds of engineers, closet case researchers and passengers with first, second and third party experiences (viz. "I had my phone on but the plane didn't crash = fine").

Not dumbing down your point - it is quite valid - though suffice to say that you wouldn't be exactly popular if you shared this thought with people outside this forum (especially those who, funny enough, have flouted the rules). It's tenable at best within this forum, as can be evidenced by the other thread around this topic.

I have had people removed from aircraft because of these rules. I'm not interested in interpretations of them, or arguments over whether off is standby, or red is green. Is it really that hard?

If the rules change, then we can all obey some new rules, but until then, surely we can play the game the way it is right now.

I very much agree with this comment. The problem is that people will always come back to the argument that the rules are flawed, and that gives them the validity to flout the rules. Not to mention that, more often than not and especially for this rule, most people "know" that even if they flout the rules:

1. The airline will reaccommodate them at no charge.
2. There are little to no legal repercussions, and the airline has almost little to no legal leg to stand on. Heck, a passenger caught smoking on an aircraft more often than not just gets a slap on the wrist (warning). Doesn't sound like a huge disincentive to set off the alarm if you're really dying for a nicotine hit.
3. Related to the two previous points, most customers can at least inflict brand damage (if not legal damages) against the airline if they appear to be "oppressed" (cue social media campaigns, the "unreasonable action" arguments and so on).
4. Passengers will make it difficult for you to give them a reason to be dealt with. You, jb747, have conceded a couple of times that - barring safety compromise - some problem pax will be left alone only because the flight timings will go to ****s if the problem pax is offloaded. Same theory behind a pax delaying the boarding of an aircraft to the last minute because they know their checked baggage must be thrown off before they are truly offloaded, and that takes time.

I guess in the end, no one likes to get told what to do, and no one likes to be told what they are doing is wrong. Period. Naturally, it wouldn't really happen if said person followed the rules (or directions) in the first place.


On another note, I'm fairly sure that the rules will change within some short to medium term (measured in years, mind you). Not sure about calls, but data transmission is definitely coming (though the economics part of it is a bit touch and go in Australia at least).

To bring all this back on topic, I suppose that any regimented or proper approaches for dealing with errant passengers would have to account for the four main points listed above. More preferably, it would solidify in law that transgressions amounting to breaking airline rules would have legal standing (i.e. able to be charged as a crime, probably civil in most cases).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I wonder how many of the people who have commented on their belief that the rules are unnecessary are aero engineers? 'Cos if you aren't your opinion isn't really worth much is it.....

For me I'm not so sure the issue has much to do with being an aero engineer, rather the safety implication of being distracted while you have accepted the responsibility of being by an emergency exit.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I don't need to be an "aero engineer" to grasp that if there was any serious danger from these devices, they'd never be let past the security gate, let alone into the cabin.

You have to be kidding me with this argument, right?

You sound like .......

I have no idea where this came from, unless it speaks about your character more than jb747's.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

You sound like a... authoritarian's wet dream.

Not at all. jb is quite correct. The law is the law and the law states these devices must be turned off. It's the same as speed limits. They are set where they are set and that's the law. Whether you think you can drive faster is irrelevant.

The debate around electronics being on/off is not whether the law should be obeyed (it must be), but around who feels they want to enforce that, and why.

I know a phone should be switched off in flight, but am I personally going to ask a passenger to turn it off if she isn't impeding my exit? Probably not, I'd leave that to the cabin crew. Would I ask a passenger to turn off a phone if they were sitting by an exit? Absolutely.

it seems us passengers (as distinct from crew who are required to enforce safety regulations) have different comfort levels as to how much we want to control our fellow passengers. I am relaxed, others feel a compelling need to take action. Each to their own.

 

[jb747]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

Or you can realise that the guy beside you with his iPhone on during takeoff probably represents less danger to you than the kid on the other side with the flu, and forego that guilty pleasure of getting people kicked off planes.

Well, the guy beside me better not have his iPhone on, and there isn't kid on the other side with the flu.

It's no guilty pleasure, it's a PITA, but, if you flout the rules on my aircraft, and it gets as far as me (of course it very rarely gets that far), then you'll probably be getting off. I will, at the very least, consider it, and it's implications.

Authoritarian coughhole. Most likely. But somebody has to be in charge, and it isn't a democracy.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

Consistency would be good.
Land at LHR on -
QF - can turn on mobile while taxiing to the gate
EK - can turn on mobile while taxiing to the gate
BA - have to wait until off the plane

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I don't need to be an "aero engineer" to grasp that if there was any serious danger from these devices, they'd never be let past the security gate, let alone into the cabin.

At the end of the day, someone who knows more about this stuff than you or I, has done a risk assessment on all of this. They have decided that electronic devices should not be used in critical phases of the flight, where the margin for error is low. Now, each airline gets to do its own risk assessment, so you will find variations on when they will allow devices to be used.

Remember one thing. Complacency is deadly.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

You have to be kidding me with this argument, right?
You really think a pilot is going to get into a plane with few hundred devices that could kill him in the hands of people he has no control over (a sizeable chunk of which he _knows_ will not be turned off) ? The idea is laughable.

Let's put this in context here. I can get pulled up trying to take a tube of toothpaste onto a plane these days, but no-one would even blink if I carried on multiple laptops, phones, ipads, or numerous other types of PEDs.

I have no idea where this came from, unless it speaks about your character more than jb747's.

Someone who boasts about having people thrown off planes because they had a mobile phone on ? <redacted>