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FlyFirst

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Hi all

When I had a BA issued AONE4 reissued last year (changed the QF domestic flight routing in Australia and added an extra segment) I was expecting QF to recalculate taxes (this was at the Melb travel centre) but they just told me it was 'too complex' to recalculate and so I paid nothing extra in terms of taxes.

Maybe this is not the norm?

Regards

FlyFirst
 

Dave Noble

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vt01 said:
Thanks Dave.

And one last question, can I make these last sectors open sectors or do I need to provide dates and times?

They can be issued as open sectors, yup

Dave
 

Chucksta

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WHy is it the taxes are more for a 4 zone ticket?

ie: taxes decrease when going to 5 zone or 6 zone ticket for First or Business?

Check out the Qantas website.

I would have thought taxes should increase, because of the extra sectors?????
 

serfty

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Chucksta said:
WHy is it the taxes are more for a 4 zone ticket?

ie: taxes decrease when going to 5 zone or 6 zone ticket for First or Business?

Check out the Qantas website.

I would have thought taxes should increase, because of the extra sectors?????
That's purely QF's examples.

While the total of the taxes/levies/charges depends upon variable like the number of segments, destinations and booking carrier. For example, any xONEx can have between 3 and 20 segments (even an xONE3). Taxes would vary considerably between within that range.

As an example, the 20 segment DONE4 I booked though CX and have nearly finished had 20 segments and T/L/C's of about AUD1100.
 

vt01

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Dave Noble said:
They can be issued as open sectors, yup

Dave

Called AA who put me through to Oneworld desk. They were really good. The consultant was a little unsure if I could do the extra sectors in Australia but checked the rules and agreed I could. She said she had to convince her supervisors who didn't think this was right.

However, she said they could not be booked as open sectors.. Something about the system wouldn't let her. It exceeded the number of stopovers. This was no big deal.. i just chose some dates in November and I'll change them later.

I also mentioned that my last flight which was in economy(because no business or first class) was booked into L class and told her that the same had happened to my next flight. So she changed that to Y class as well.

All in all pretty straight forward. The change was USD $195 including taxes of USD$70.

It did take about 45 minutes on the phone. But this was caused by the consultant waiting for another department to get back to her.. I'm guessing this was the calculations of taxes..

So once again, thanks to all in this thread for your help.:D :D
 

Dave Noble

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vt01 said:
However, she said they could not be booked as open sectors.. Something about the system wouldn't let her. It exceeded the number of stopovers. This was no big deal.. i just chose some dates in November and I'll change them later.

Which country did you speak to? The sectors can be issued open so sounds like an agent error

vt01 said:
I also mentioned that my last flight which was in economy(because no business or first class) was booked into L class and told her that the same had happened to my next flight. So she changed that to Y class as well.

hope you don't end up with any problems here since it should not have been booked in Y but L

Code:
(C) BOOKING CODES
FIRST BUSINESS ECONOMY
AA AY BA CX IB QF LA LP EI A D L
AY EI LA LP DOMESTIC Y Y L
AA DOMESTIC FLIGHTS 3000-5999 Y Y L
BA WORLD TRAVELLER PLUS T

NOTE: WHEN THE CLASS OF SERVICE FOR THE FARE IS NOT OFFERED BOOK IN THE NEXT LOWER CLASS OF SERVICE USING THE BOOKING CLASSES ABOVE

EXCEPTION - FOR SERVICES WITHIN/BETWEEN THE USA AND CANADA WHERE NO BUSINESS CLASS IS OFFERED BUSINESS CLASS PASSENGERS MAY BOOK AND TRAVEL IN FIRST CLASS SUBJECT TO AVAILABILITY

I don't think that QF flights are one of the exceptions where Y can be booked when there is no D availability

Dave
 

vt01

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Dave Noble said:
Which country did you speak to? The sectors can be issued open so sounds like an agent error
Thanks Dave
It was AA in the US as that's where I currently am. I'm not too concerned that I couldn't have them issued as open.. I'll just change the dates when I'm ready..
Dave Noble said:
hope you don't end up with any problems here since it should not have been booked in Y but L
Code:
(C) BOOKING CODES
FIRST BUSINESS ECONOMY
AA AY BA CX IB QF LA LP EI A D L
AY EI LA LP DOMESTIC Y Y L
[B]AA DOMESTIC FLIGHTS 3000-5999 Y Y L[/B]
BA WORLD TRAVELLER PLUS T
Dave
I'm travelling on an AA domestic flight number 4183 which can be booked into Y as per the codes you pasted.. So I should be fine..

Got a nice surprise when I paid for the reissue today.. They only charged me US$176.60 instead of the US$195 I had been quoted.:D :D So that brings the taxes down to $51.
 

NM

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The problem with open dating may have been the same issue I ran into. Because you can have up to 4 sectors in Australia but only 2 stopovers, it would be possible to break the stopover rule if some flights were not dated as connections. As such, they need to be dated to ensure you only have a max of two stopovers.

Its not a problem in a region where the stopovers are not restricted, but in the Continent of Origin, it can be a problem.

Its simple enough to use dates well in the future and just change them if you need later. That is what I have done with my last two SWP sectors on my DONE4.
 
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vt01

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NM said:
The problem with open dating may have been the same issue I ran into. Because you can have up to 4 sectors in Australia but only 2 stopovers, it would be possible to break the stopover rule if some flights were not dated as connections. As such, they need to be dated to ensure you only have a max of two stopovers.
I'm sure that's what it was.. She mentioned something about the system thinking each destination was a stopover rather than a transit..

One other thing that happened was I lost my original seat allocation on the LAX-SYD flight.. I had 24A which vanished from the system. Now I have 25E.:(. Part of the price I pay for the extra points and SC's...
 

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vt01 said:
One other thing that happened was I lost my original seat allocation on the LAX-SYD flight.. I had 24A which vanished from the system. Now I have 25E.:(. Part of the price I pay for the extra points and SC's...
Call Qantas and see if they can improve the seat allocation. Let them know that you know they often hold back some seat allocations for premium FF members (such as row 16, 23AB/JK also seem to be in this category).

If they can't improve the seat, then keep trying since people change flights regularly and seats do become available. If still not improved, ask again at airport check-in, and then again in the lounge. Last minute changes also happen.
 

vt01

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NM said:
Call Qantas and see if they can improve the seat allocation. Let them know that you know they often hold back some seat allocations for premium FF members (such as row 16, 23AB/JK also seem to be in this category).

If they can't improve the seat, then keep trying since people change flights regularly and seats do become available. If still not improved, ask again at airport check-in, and then again in the lounge. Last minute changes also happen.
Thanks NM.. I'll give it a try. Would it be best to call the Platinum FF service centre or just Qantas reservations?
 

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vt01 said:
Thanks NM.. I'll give it a try. Would it be best to call the Platinum FF service centre or just Qantas reservations?
I would call 131211 and when you enter your FF number the agent will know your status.
 

vt01

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NM said:
I would call 131211 and when you enter your FF number the agent will know your status.
Called Qantas and they were able to find a free seat - 12A.. That's good enough for me.

However, that was the easy part.. They started to look at my booking and discovered I was holding 2 seats on the ORD-LAX-SYD flights.. One was the original QF booking and the other the AA booking. Then things got confusing. The consultant said that it looked like AA had left the SWF-ORD booking on the QF booking but had done the other sectors on the AA ticket. Something about she couldn't see the SWF-ORD sector on the AA booking.
Yet, when I use the AA website and look at my reservations, I can see the SWF-ORD sector and all the other sectors that AA booked for me.
I asked here what class the SWF-ORD sector was in and she said L. I told her it should be in Y according to the rules of the fare. She disagreed and said she would need to read the rules. She also consulted her supervisor who agreed it should be L. I basically told her what to look for in the fare rules based on what Dave Noble posted earlier. She eventually found it and then agreed with me. She did apologise as well for her mistake..
She then wanted me to call AA and clear up what had happened. So I told her I was happy, I have a valid ticket from AA with all my flights on it so if QF want to clean up their system she can call AA and sort it out.. As long as she leaves my AA booking alone..

It was a QF consultant who erroneously booked my first ORD-SWF into L class instead of Y class.. I think after I return to Aus I'll call them and get them to credit the extra 15 SC's I didn't get due to their mistake! Either that or give me back the $75 admin fee they charged me....
 

NM

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I think you are seeing the differences that happen when the airlines use different reservation systems.

The QF agent is looking at Amadeus. I assume the original DONE4 fare was booked by QF and hence it would have all been in Amadeus with the relevant AA and connecting info segments pushed through to AA's Sabre reservation system.

When the ticket has been re-issued by AA, they will have had to enter all the remaining segments into Sabre and issue the ticket. That process will push the QF and relevant connecting info segments back to Amadeus. But since SWF-ORD is not a segment that QF needs to see as an info/connecting segment, it would not have been pushed back to QF's Amadeus. So the QF system will still show their original details for SWF-ORD (i.e. booked in L and not Y) while AA's Sabre system will show their updated info (i.e. booked in Y).

Unfortunately not even airline reservation agents seem to properly understand the way their reservation systems communicate!
 
Last edited:

vt01

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NM said:
I think you are seeing the differences that happen when the airlines use different reservation systems.
Ah yes... All these computer systems supposedly seemlessly talking to one another..
NM said:
The QF agent is looking at Amadeus. I assume the original LONE4 fare was booked by QF and hence it would have all been in Amadeus with the relevant AA and connecting info segments pushed through to AA's Sabre reservation system.
It's actually a DONE4 (just so people don't get confused if following the thread)
This makes sense.. The consultant kept saying she could see the AA booking. So she was actually only looking at the segments that had been pushed through.. This also explains her confusion when I said I could still see the SWF-ORD segment in my reservations on the AA website.
NM said:
When the ticket has been re-issued by AA, they will have had to enter all the remaining segments into Sabre and issue the ticket. That process will push the QF and relevant connecting info segments back to Amadeus. But since SWF-ORD is not a segment that QF needs to see as an info/connecting segment, it would not have been pushed back to QF's Amadeus. So the QF system will still show their original details for SWF-ORD (i.e. booked in L and not Y) while AA's Sabre system will show their updated info (i.e. booked in Y).

Unfortunately not even airline reservation agents seem to properly understand the way their reservation systems communicate!
That's about it.. So not only do they not understand the fare rules properly but also the reservation system.. What chance does the poor traveller have without help from AFF or Flyertalk..
 

NM

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vt01 said:
It's actually a DONE4 (just so people don't get confused if following the thread)
Oops, sorry about that. I have edited my original post to read DONE4 instead of my mistaken LONE4. Hopefully I have not confused too many people - at least no more than my normal carry-on does.
vt01 said:
This makes sense.. The consultant kept saying she could see the AA booking. So she was actually only looking at the segments that had been pushed through.. This also explains her confusion when I said I could still see the SWF-ORD segment in my reservations on the AA website.
Indeed. The Amadeus and Sabre booking references (the Record Locator or Reloc as its often called) don't change when the ticket is issued or re-issued. So the QF agent was seeing old data that was resident in Amadeus because that's where the original full itinerary was booked. The one that matters is what Sabre says and that is seen via the AA web site.

But if the ticket was once again to be re-issued by QF, they may not update the SWF-ORD segment before issuing and that would cause it to be pushed back to AA with the old and incorrect info.
vt01 said:
That's about it.. So not only do they not understand the fare rules properly but also the reservation system.. What chance does the poor traveller have without help from AFF or Flyertalk..
Not much chance at all. That's why places like this are essential reading for people doing anything but simple travel itineraries. I am regularly educating agents (both TA and airline agents) about the rules. The last one saved me $76 when an AA reservations agent believed the $38 AU Passenger Movement Charge (Departure Tax) applied equally to children under 12 years as it does not adults. If I had not known and had access to the rules I would have just paid what the agent said the price was.
 

JohnK

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And some people think I go through hell doing the short hop AY runs, BKK-SIN and BKK-HKG. :rolleyes:
 

vt01

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NM said:
Indeed. The Amadeus and Sabre booking references (the Record Locator or Reloc as its often called) don't change when the ticket is issued or re-issued. So the QF agent was seeing old data that was resident in Amadeus because that's where the original full itinerary was booked. The one that matters is what Sabre says and that is seen via the AA web site.
After talking to Qantas yesterday, the QF agent ended up changing the booking reference. So I can now see all sectors except the SWF-ORD through QFF website using the new booking reference. The old one has vanished.
NM said:
But if the ticket was once again to be re-issued by QF, they may not update the SWF-ORD segment before issuing and that would cause it to be pushed back to AA with the old and incorrect info.
They just cancelled the duplicate bookings that I had in the QF system. However, I'm now confused about my seat allocation. If I use checkmytrip.com, I can once again see all the sectors except the SWF-ORD. This makes sense now that I understand that it is looking at Amadeus. If I check my seat allocation through here, I can see I have 12A. However, if I now look in AA My Reservations, the same flight shows my seat as 25E. So this is what is in Sabre.

Which seat will I get when I check in with AA? Should I call AA back and get them to remove my seat allocation from their system?

NM said:
Not much chance at all. That's why places like this are essential reading for people doing anything but simple travel itineraries. I am regularly educating agents (both TA and airline agents) about the rules. The last one saved me $76 when an AA reservations agent believed the $38 AU Passenger Movement Charge (Departure Tax) applied equally to children under 12 years as it does not adults. If I had not known and had access to the rules I would have just paid what the agent said the price was.
That's what happened with my first change to this ticket.. The one where I called QF and then at the end got an extra bill for $75.. That wasn't listed anywhere in the rules!

JohnK said:
And some people think I go through hell doing the short hop AY runs, BKK-SIN and BKK-HKG. :rolleyes:
Yep.. certainly has been a bit of a struggle...And a lot of time!
The one good thing to come out of all this is
-what I've learnt about the xONEx fares, what you can and can't do,
-additional charges (like the additional QF reissue fee of $75 on top of the USD$125 even when using the premium QFF number!:evil: ),
-not to believe what an agent tells me if I know different
-the different booking systems used by QF and AA and how they interact
-how lucky I was to find this forum (got it from a newspaper article):D :D
 

Dave Noble

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vt01 said:
They just cancelled the duplicate bookings that I had in the QF system. However, I'm now confused about my seat allocation. If I use checkmytrip.com, I can once again see all the sectors except the SWF-ORD. This makes sense now that I understand that it is looking at Amadeus. If I check my seat allocation through here, I can see I have 12A. However, if I now look in AA My Reservations, the same flight shows my seat as 25E. So this is what is in Sabre.

Which seat will I get when I check in with AA? Should I call AA back and get them to remove my seat allocation from their system?

If it is an AA flight, trust AA.com for the seat numbers, for a QF flight , trust Amadeus. The 2 systems can get out of sync; e.g. if you book through AA, it may allocate a seat and will show on aa.com. If you then change it with QF, then Amadeus will not pass that info back to Sabre and so aa.com will not be updated with the new info

Whatever the airline you are flying with believes you are seated is what matters, don't worry about the discrepencies between systems

Dave
 

vt01

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Dave Noble said:
Whatever the airline you are flying with believes you are seated is what matters, don't worry about the discrepencies between systems

Dave
Thanks Dave.. I'll just leave it alone then.
And hopefully that's the end of this part of the saga for me!

The next bit of fun will come when I try to get QF to give me the extra 15 SC's I missed out on because they did not follow the fare rules and booked me in L class instead of Y.
 
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