Obese Pilot

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Cocitus23

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I have just returned from a OneWorld Round-the-World trip, and very enjoyable it was.

One of my flights was AA4461 from New York (JFK) to Washington (DCA) on Friday 3 September, and I am still trying to come to terms with what I experienced.

I have travelled across USA at least once a year for the last 30-odd years, so I am no stranger to the obesity crisis across that country, but I never expected to see it on display in the coughpit of one of their leading airlines. Now it is difficult to describe in words the immensity of the captain of our American Eagle flight, but he was so massive that he would have even turned heads in any Walmart, where such waddling behemoths are a regular feature of the aislescape. My good wife, an American herself and so much more experienced than I am at assessing the mass of such bounteous blubber, placed him between 375 and 400 pounds. Let’s say about 175 kg. And he looked all the more astounding, being decked out in the AA uniform as he was. Two things are certain: First, AA did not pull this uniform off the rack, but had it especially tailored, and second, they won’t be using Fat Dave, as I shall call him, in their promotional material. He hardly cut the image of a John Travolta in uniform.

I did take note of Fat Dave’s real name from the in-flight announcements, but I shall not use it here, lest this post be dismissed as an attempt at personal humiliation.

I confess to having been quite shaken, whether rationally or not, at being committed to Fat Dave’s care, but my wife humoured me with the suggestion that even if he did survive the taxi out to the runway without suffering a heart attack, the small plane (an EMB with 1,2 seating arrangement) would never be able to get airborne. (In fact, we did get airborne and had a smooth flight, although the landing was quite heavy – which I am prepared to accept as coincidental!!)

Upon arrival at my in-laws’ home near Washington, we related the story of Fat Dave, and I commented that I was sufficiently upset at my safety being put in the hands of a pilot I considered to be unfit for duty that I had briefly considered leading a passengers’ revolt. They expressed great relief that I had not pursued such a course, because it could have exposed me to a charge of discriminatory behaviour!!

And this made me reflect upon the justification, if any, for my reaction. Was I simply being prejudiced, like those who opposed female piolts and black pilots? Does the physical condition of the pilot matter at all? Are tests done on pilots’ fitness and agility? (In my opinion, the only physical test that Fat Dave could confidently pass would be lifting a Big Mac from the table to his mouth.) I suppose my concerns boil down to (A) his heightened exposure to cardiac arrest and stroke, (B) the impossibility of moving him from his seat in the event that he suffered such a crisis during flight, (C) his total lack of agility if needed to handle some in-flight incident, involving for instance an unruly passenger, and finally (D) the real possibility of him being unable to pass through an emergency exit hatch.

I intend to write a letter of complaint to American, and I will post here their reply if/when it comes. But the thought occurs to me that many of you experienced travellers and airline insiders will have observations to make about this situation which could provide valuable content to my letter. So I invite you to contribute however you see fit, including telling me that I am concerned over nothing and being driven by prejudices, if that is your view.

Thanks,

Cocitus 23
 
I'm not sure an "obese" pilot concerns me. I'm more worried about pilots that are drunk, enter the wrong figures into the computers, are suicidal or one of many other reasons why they could cause my flight to crash.
 
We come in all shapes and sizes together with quite a few colours.
Your captain did the job so there was no problem.
Last night there was a 7 foot footballer on board and we just wondered how he would handle the toilet if the plane was not an A330.
Just remain curious but do nothing as we all have feelings.
 
I find it fascinating that the OP fears the potential risks of the obvious physical nature of this pilots "condition", seeing it as increased risk. I know of a number of people who have been active, healthy and healthy bodyweight who have had massive heart attacks, or indeed dropped dead. Indeed our very healthy 28 year Nanny died of an undiagnosed heart valve problem. Should we subject pilots of normal weight to undergo mental health tests prior to each flight?

I am dissapointed that in these day and age such an intolerant and fearful stance is taken .....including complaining to the airline.

Perhaps I am naive, but I am sure that the airline does regular tests to ensure the said (and all) pilot/s is/are fit to take control
 
Just off topic a little. On September 8th I flew AA6876 (Alaska code share flight) from SEA to SFO and I believe that the Flight Attendant had so much plastic surgery that if a fire did occur in the cabin she would have melted. Don't get me wrong she had a fantastic body for her age and it was apparent that she has given careful consideration about other bodily enhancements, but her face was shiny and pulled back. (I think if she has one more face lift she will have a beard ;))

Sorry to get off topic about the fat controller, but thought I would just mention a tidy plastic creation. Just on that issue, I suspect that with the pilot being so large he would have great difficulty getting out to the driver's seat in the event of an emergency evacuation.
 
Wow.

I am feeling personally offended on behalf of those in the community who are overweight/obese. Being overweight does not mean that you are incompetent. If AA are trusting this individual with a mutli-million dollar machine, why can't you trust "Fat Dave" in piloting the aircraft?

Your entire post reeks of arrogance and prejudice.
 
I’m sure the pilot in this case was deemed fit enough to operate the plane, and I assume any number of reasons could cause him to be bigger than the average person, a few of which wouldn’t make him any more likely to have a heart attack mid-flight. Besides, that’s why you have a co-pilot.

I wouldn’t be concerned.

I do think you’re a little prejudiced though, not everyone is blessed by a good metabolism :p


Just on that issue, I suspect that with the pilot being so large he would have great difficulty getting out to the driver's seat in the event of an emergency evacuation.

Perhaps, but isn’t his priority the passengers and crews safety, above his own? Or am I reading too much into a captain going down with his ship?
 
I'm going to take a slightly different view here. I certainly don't see the OP as intolerant. The size suggested in the OP would be called Morbidly Obese, there is a good reason that the word morbidly is used. But I would guess that all pilots have to undergo periodic health assessments and hence it would be considered that his risk of heart attack was within the acceptable range. For that reason I would probably not bother writing a letter myself. But if you do I would suggest framing the letter in terms of seeking reassurance about the medical assessment process.

I find it fascinating that the OP fears the potential risks of the obvious physical nature of this pilots "condition", seeing it as increased risk. I know of a number of people who have been active, healthy and healthy bodyweight who have had massive heart attacks, or indeed dropped dead. Indeed our very healthy 28 year Nanny died of an undiagnosed heart valve problem. Should we subject pilots of normal weight to undergo mental health tests prior to each flight?

I am dissapointed that in these day and age such an intolerant and fearful stance is taken .....including complaining to the airline.

Perhaps I am naive, but I am sure that the airline does regular tests to ensure the said (and all) pilot/s is/are fit to take control

I think you are missing the point entirely. Many overwieght people hav e a much greater chance of heart attack. The fact that your nanny had a heart attack is completely different, your nanny had a condition that made it much more likely for them to have a heart attack. That the nany's condition was undiagnosed doesn't not reduce the known risk of an obese person having a heart attack. If the nanny was a pilot, then the condition would have been diagnosed by medical testing. Would you have mentioned discrimination when they stopped the nanny pilot from being a pilot?

I have a muscle condition that I've been told stops me from being a pilot, is that discrimination or looking after the safety of the passengers.

Wow.

I am feeling personally offended on behalf of those in the community who are overweight/obese. Being overweight does not mean that you are incompetent. If AA are trusting this individual with a mutli-million dollar machine, why can't you trust "Fat Dave" in piloting the aircraft?

Your entire post reeks of arrogance and prejudice.

The OP does not make any suggestion of incompetence. It is raising a safety issue. Would you complain about a new Australia taxi driver whose driving is outright dangerous? Or would that be arrogance and prejudice?
 
I have a muscle condition that I've been told stops me from being a pilot, is that discrimination or looking after the safety of the passengers.

I didn’t realise the OP did a physical and tested for the pilot in his case being predisposed to the same condition?

The OP does not make any suggestion of incompetence. It is raising a safety issue. Would you complain about a new Australia taxi driver whose driving is outright dangerous? Or would that be arrogance and prejudice?

Where did the OP say the driving of the aircraft was dangerous? You’re comparing two different things, but I understand what you’re trying to say, it’s just that in this case, it’s nothing remotely similar :p

Similar would be, would you complain about a new Australian taxi driver who was really fat and you thought he might have a heart attack on the way to your destination… probably not, right?

I’m sure the airline has stringent safety standards that their pilots must adhere to. They’re not likely to keep a pilot around if their insurance were to go up significantly on his flights, or if he couldn’t eat a big mac, per the OP :p I’m sure everything was as it should be, just, Americans are a bit bigger :p
 
The OP does not make any suggestion of incompetence. It is raising a safety issue. Would you complain about a new Australia taxi driver whose driving is outright dangerous? Or would that be arrogance and prejudice?

Oh please. The devils advocate stance on this argument is ridiculous.

Did you miss my point....

"If AA are trusting this individual with a mutli-million dollar machine, why can't you trust "Fat Dave" in piloting the aircraft?"

??
 
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Oh please. The devils advocate stance on this argument is ridiculous.

Did you miss my point....



??

+1, who are we to question the fitness of an individual without any qualifications or experience, I wish people would stop guessing and do some research before commenting, especially when it comes to looking at what the class 1 medical requirements are for an ATP. When was the last time passengers were at risk from a pilot with medical issues ??????
 
Surely if the pilot passes his line checks, sim checks and medical checks, then he's "safe" (or at least as safe as anyone else who passes similar testing).
 
It's certainly a tough situation, but theoretically I'm with medhead and the OP on this.

Some have commented that as long as he passes his medicals, it's okay. But do medicals sufficiently cater for weight-related risks? As far as I can tell it's subjective. And with these hot button subjects where people happily call discrimination, making a subjective call then just lends itself to being taken for a lawsuit, particularly in the US...
 
I think you are being concerned over nothing and being prejudiced.
Sorry, but you did ask for honest comment.
 
Oh please. The devils advocate stance on this argument is ridiculous.

Did you miss my point....

??

Oh please yourself. Did you fail to read the first paragraph of my post. It is just below with some emphasis on the bit you missed.

I would reiterate that I am not questioning the medical checks that are done and I do believe that the pilot would have passed those tests and I am not making any conclusions at all about the pilot's fitness. (just to make it really clear for those who seem to think that a phd in aviation science and 50 years experience is required in order to qualify someone to make any comment about anything related to aviation :p and then to have done some research.)

Also please do show me where exactly the OP raises any concerns about competence.

I'm going to take a slightly different view here. I certainly don't see the OP as intolerant. The size suggested in the OP would be called Morbidly Obese, there is a good reason that the word morbidly is used. But I would guess that all pilots have to undergo periodic health assessments and hence it would be considered that his risk of heart attack was within the acceptable range. For that reason I would probably not bother writing a letter myself. But if you do I would suggest framing the letter in terms of seeking reassurance about the medical assessment process.



I didn’t realise the OP did a physical and tested for the pilot in his case being predisposed to the same condition?

Umm I'm not sure what you mean by this. :confused: :-| I think I made the point sufficiently that the OP doesn't know about the medical status of said pilot. I was making an analogy related to the question of discrimination. If it is discrimination to expect that a morbidly obese person with a corresponding increased heart attack risk be dsiqualified from flying an aircraft then is it also discrimination to disqualify a person (like me) with a mild physical impairment? I don't think so in my case, and I would argue that I'm more than capable of piloting an aircraft (in principle). But I can also accept that there are safety standards that need to apply to everyone. I don't feel discriminated against, so I fail to see that there is discrimination in the OP.

Where did the OP say the driving of the aircraft was dangerous? You’re comparing two different things, but I understand what you’re trying to say, it’s just that in this case, it’s nothing remotely similar :p

Similar would be, would you complain about a new Australian taxi driver who was really fat and you thought he might have a heart attack on the way to your destination… probably not, right?

An again an analogy on the question of discrimination not being overweight. So it was not a similie, it isn't supposed to be exactly the same. The OP is raising the issue that having an increased chance of a heart attack is dangerous. A taxi driver who is going to crash into a car going around a corner is also dangerous. Would it be racial discrimination to suggest that a dangerous taxi driver who just happens to be of of a certain ethnic background be disqualifed from driving the taxi?

Basically I was questioning the claim that the OP was being discriminatory to obese people and putting up other situations to highlight the difference discrimination and being concerned about safety.
I’m sure the airline has stringent safety standards that their pilots must adhere to. They’re not likely to keep a pilot around if their insurance were to go up significantly on his flights, or if he couldn’t eat a big mac, per the OP :p I’m sure everything was as it should be, just, Americans are a bit bigger :p

I think I tried to say that in the first paragraph of my post. Just not as eloquently as you did.
 
Some have commented that as long as he passes his medicals, it's okay. But do medicals sufficiently cater for weight-related risks? As far as I can tell it's subjective. And with these hot button subjects where people happily call discrimination, making a subjective call then just lends itself to being taken for a lawsuit, particularly in the US...
I think the answer to your question is Yes. I don't think medicals are subjective.

I just don't see how anyone can see discrimination in raising a safety issue. Perhaps the lady doth protest too much?
 
Ahh I thought you were doing the opposite, no worries then. I think.
Really I shouldn't wade into subjective values based discussions. I also wasn't very clear due to my "verbal" diahorrea.

In summary I think it is fine to ask teh question but I also think that the pilot wouldn't be rostered on if he wasn't fit.

Gee funny how easy it is to kill my verbosity. :oops:

 
I'll be terse. :)

I have confidence in the airline having adequate health checks on its pilots, and would have no concerns.

I may note that the pilot is overweight, but would not complain or even notify the airline. They know this already.
 
But if he were to crash the plane, he'd absorb a good portion of the impact, so that sort of equals out the risk to an extent. I think.
 
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