Newbie Question - Are points programs worth it?

[harvyk]

lovetravellingoz - Don't get me wrong, when there is an option to earn points doing everyday things (such as the weekly shopping) I certainly take the points. As I point out to friends who question me on it "It's not like it costs anything to gain the points"

Also I have yet to actually read anything from either side (both the it's worth it and the it's not worth it crowd) that I truely disagree with.

QF (and the other airlines) make the gathering and using of points a confusing thing on purpose. That means they can dictate where you eat, where you sleep and where you shop by giving you incentives to do these things with the companies they choose. The problem is that people can become blind towards the gathering of points they don't realise that had they not used a QF recommended place they'd have saved enough to purchase a J or F flight outright from the savings alone.

Of course, if your chosen lifestyle and purchasing decisions fits in with QF and it's friends, the FF points are a great way of getting free upgrades and other stuff.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

lovetravellingoz - Don't get me wrong, when there is an option to earn points doing everyday things (such as the weekly shopping) I certainly take the points. As I point out to friends who question me on it "It's not like it costs anything to gain the points"

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I agree with you. However with respect to the weekly shopping it is often more cost-effective to not gain the points as Woolworths/Safeways is more expensive than the value of the points gained for many items.

 

[JohnK]

In my opinion FF programs are worth it but that also depends how obsessive the quest to earn FF points becomes. The situation is different for everyone.

It does not matter if QF flights are considered more expensive as there isn't a realistic alternative especially if schedule and customer service is at the top of your list. DJ are often more expensive than QF, especially if you have checked luggage, JQ are on the never to be flown list and TT simply does not have the schedule to be looked at seriously.

I stay at hotels that are mainly 2 or 3 star and I consider good value for money and if I can earn QFF points then this is a bonus. In Australia I prefer to stay at Best Westerns or Choice hotels and both are QFF partners.

If I am going to hire a car then I will hire a car through Avis and Hertz and credit the car hire to VS Flying Club. I am not sure there is a realistic alternative as places like Abel may have cheaper rates but poor customer service and shoddy business practices.

If I do not have to go out of my way or spend more money to earn FF points then the choice of joining a FF program becomes easy.

 

[JohnK]

Good point. That probably has some impact as you'd have to buy Jetflex fares which are probably over twice as dear. Not sure if you get the extra $1/point when booking JQ either, even on the QF site.

It won't be on the QF website. Look for it in the terms and conditions of the credit card such as I assume Earth cards or Qantas branded Amex cards. Spend on JQ products does not earn the extra point/$1.

And though I do not do it, some run balances that they are paying interest on thinking that they are in front by getting FF points whereas the true cost after interest would actually have many behind, rather than in front.

What makes you think that a person paying interest on a credit card does not have everyday expenses? Mobile phone, internet access, pay TV, groceries, train tickets, flights, accommodation etc. How do you propose a person pays for these things? By cash? And what difference will that make? Or should a person paying interest on a credit card not have a life like normal people?

The modest sum of points I have accumulated with both Qantas and Amex are extremely worth it. Paying interest has nothing to do with it and does not even come into the calculation as I would still be paying interest even if I was not earning MR points/FF points.

I agree with you. However with respect to the weekly shopping it is often more cost-effective to not gain the points as Woolworths/Safeways is more expensive than the value of the points gained for many items.

YMMV. We were shopping at Woolworths well before they became a QF partner. I have no doubt that Woolworths is the cheapest, has greater variety of goods, provides consistent service, more stores etc. The QFF points are a bonus.

 

[harvyk]

I agree with you. However with respect to the weekly shopping it is often more cost-effective to not gain the points as Woolworths/Safeways is more expensive than the value of the points gained for many items.

Considering we shop at wollies every week without fail, and that was before points came in, it's not going to cost us anything to get the points credited to my FF account.

It's not like we actively choose to shop at wollies, it's just the only realistic alternative to wollies \ coles (no better than wollies, plus a pain to get to from our place) is located at least a half hour drive away from us, and I doubt we'd be seeing much of a saving once you have factored in time and petrol.

But as I said, YMMV, there are arguments for signing up to FF, and there are arguments against. However I think the biggest argument towards or against is you need to look at your lifestyle now and see if the quest for FF points will force you to do anything differently, if not, why not get the points?

 

[serfty]

... YMMV. We were shopping at Woolworths well before they became a QF partner. I have no doubt that Woolworths is the cheapest, has greater variety of goods, provides consistent service, more stores etc. The QFF points are a bonus.

Prices of items can vary between locations for the same chain - comparing any two stores' standard prices for some items may show them to be more than those for the same items at another store and vv for other items. It relates to demographics, localised competition and other highly researched factors.

It could be that the particular items you normally purchase at your local Woolworth's store are typically less expensive than at other stores.

 

[simongr]

Price is not the only consideration when shopping at Woolworths, time and convenience are a major factor.

 

[sunbeamrapier]

In the Australian market there is only one frequent flyer program which I can recommend - Virgin Blue's Velocity. All flights attract points, and you can use your points on any seat on any flight.

I used to be a member of the Qantas program. I generate a lot of points using my credit cards, but I found that it was very difficult to use my points on international flights, and the "cost" in points for domestic flights (when you have to fly Jetstar anyway) was way too high.

So I switched to flying Virgin Blue domestically and Virgin International when I travel overseas.

If you can accumulate enough points to fly business class your points are worth a lot more - and Virgin International have a fantastic business class - Upper Class - which is more like First Class with fully flat beds, wonderful lounges, limos to and from the airport and amazing service. If you are used to flying Qantas, the Virgin International experience will blow your socks off...

When a business is run by accountants the first casualty is the customer - it is hard to escape the feeling that Qantas resents customers who fly on points (assuming you can ever get a seat). So I moved to a customer-centric airline and you have to give it to Branson, he knows how to make his customers feel special and his crew obviously have fun flying with his airlines - a happy crew makes for a great flying experience.

So, I suggest you fly Virgin Blue locally, buy your tickets well in advance to take advantage of cheap prices, and use your points when you have to book close to the time when it would otherwise be expensive to fly. If you fly a lot, use your points to fly business class on Virgin Atlantic on long haul flights.

 

[geoffl]

Nat the Cat, All programs are worth it if you can utilise them correctly, remember, everything you buy these days has a hidden cost embedded in it to pay for one loyalty program or another, your job is to work out how to maximise this.
I had around 15 loyalty schemes operating before I really understood consolidation, now I have 2, Qantas and SPG Hotels.
Basically I try to make every spend count, so I have an Amex/Qantas Credit Card and the points go on the QF programme, yes, I shop at Woolies using Amex and get points and I take the "everyday rewards" card and the extra popints are directly added to my QF balance, if I stay at a any Hotel other than SPG Properties, I take QF points, not Hotel awards, I pay Telstra, Sydney Water, Electricity all with the QF/Amex card, it is amazing how all thse small spends add up.
So, carefully analyse all your spending and remember, there are lots of ways to earn points other than the flights themselves.

 

[James69]

The Woolworths Everyday Rewards Card is free and allows you to collect extra QFF from just shopping there (other in store benifits as well)

 

[geoffl]

Nat the Cat, I also forgot to mention that for those Providers that do not accept Amex, I also carry a CBA Visa card, which is also directly linked to my QF FF Program, so, basically every $ I spend goes into QF.
I have been accruing points for some time, and now have over 1.3 million, a great number of which come from credit cards, and extra programs outside of flying.:mrgreen:

Nat the Cat, All programs are worth it if you can utilise them correctly, remember, everything you buy these days has a hidden cost embedded in it to pay for one loyalty program or another, your job is to work out how to maximise this.
I had around 15 loyalty schemes operating before I really understood consolidation, now I have 2, Qantas and SPG Hotels.
Basically I try to make every spend count, so I have an Amex/Qantas Credit Card and the points go on the QF programme, yes, I shop at Woolies using Amex and get points and I take the "everyday rewards" card and the extra popints are directly added to my QF balance, if I stay at a any Hotel other than SPG Properties, I take QF points, not Hotel awards, I pay Telstra, Sydney Water, Electricity all with the QF/Amex card, it is amazing how all thse small spends add up.
So, carefully analyse all your spending and remember, there are lots of ways to earn points other than the flights themselves.

 

[ronone69]

Over the years we have had over $250K retail value of first and business class flights with QF on points

I earn points by flying but mainly by paying business expenses on the right credit cards. Anyone with a small business can do this. I also earn points on hotel programs that are valuable ie Starwood, Hyatt, etc

If you only fly, you will have to fly heaps to earn a heap of points. It really is the credit cards that make the FF programs work. And that too depends on you income and spending patterns.

Can they work, sure. Are they for you ? You need to work out the cost v's the benefits.

 

[Nat the cat]

Geoff, thanks for that reply it was really simple and encouraging if you don't mind I might just try copying your strategy and see how I go

As I am not flying a lot right now accruing points via bills sounds like a sensible thing to do.

Thanks to everyone for your replies, they were a bit overwhelming at times but I think I am keen to give it a crack.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

A couple of years ago I used my points to get me syd - bei, then paid for a domestic flight to shanghai, points to get to HCMC, paid to take tiger down to singapore, then points to sydney.

I used about 86000 points which saved me approx $3000. I bascially couldn't have done the trip the way I did without the points.

I've had a gold card for many years for the free travel insurance, as I tend to travel OS for leisure twice a year. Rarely flown QF except when using points. Usually go over on JQ and back on QF, or sometimes fly SQ if they have a good deal and I can stop over in singapore both ways and use it as a base to go to other places cheaply with the LCCs there.

I would say don't chase points if it means u will spend more money. Quite often I;'ve been abel to get return flights $2-300 cheaper than the QF flight, which for me is better value. Now if QF is only sightly more expensive then I would rob chase the points

 

[simongr]

So, I suggest you fly Virgin Blue locally, buy your tickets well in advance to take advantage of cheap prices, and use your points when you have to book close to the time when it would otherwise be expensive to fly. If you fly a lot, use your points to fly business class on Virgin Atlantic on long haul flights.

Out of interest did you try to redeem flights on other carriers not using the QF program?

Virgin have a very limited range of global opportunities and if planning to redeem worldwide J flights they would not be a major consideration for me.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

What makes you think that a person paying interest on a credit card does not have everyday expenses? .

Did I say or imply that they did or would not?

Mobile phone, internet access, pay TV, groceries, train tickets, flights, accommodation etc. How do you propose a person pays for these things? By cash? And what difference will that make? Or should a person paying interest on a credit card not have a life like normal people?

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My advice would be:

1/ If they are continually paying interest by maintaining a CC balance that they need to do some serious budgeting and assessment of their income and expenses...and that one or both need to change to avoid the balance remaining.

Maintaining a continuing balance on a CC and paying interest may seem like one is maintaining a "certain" lifestyle when in fact it is actually ensuring in the long term that you will have less to spend.

2/ That if you do have a large CC balance that you cannot pay off....that maintaining spend on a high interest card like Amex to earn FF points is probably false economy when one could instead be using a low interest CC.


ie I would imagine that it would be better financially to forgo FF/MR points and instead seek out a low interest card.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

. Paying interest has nothing to do with it and does not even come into the calculation as I would still be paying interest even if I was not earning MR points/FF points.

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With due respect...I think you are in denial.

 

[JohnK]

With due respect...I think you are in denial.

Really? Thanks for the advice....