New business class for VA 737 [deferred]

[moa999]

Which I think is similar to Qatar's 320 First and 319 aircraft.
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2016/02/09/review-qatar-airways-a320-first-class/

 

[bullerdude]

I suspect a row or two of economy will go in order to fit the business seats, which makes sense if the planes are dedicated. I don't think it will affect costs too much as the 737 is cheaper to run and the east-west tickets are already higher than east-coast tickets.

 

[Justchecking]

In Australia we are spoiled and to think they will install an fully lie flat product for transcon is a bit wishful thinking. The A330's only had lie flat for a very short period of time and that was only because they were destined for offshore work where it's necessary. Personally I think we'll see something more akin to the SIA regional product they had in the A330's previously, recliner with a footrest and nice little stowage spaces. Really anything more than that would be overkill and unnecessary. IMHO where they really need to improve the [hard] product is....

- Legrest/foot cubby
- Recline
- Decent tray size and stability
- Stowages

I wonder how big this transcon fleet is going to be? Given they will need to up the frequency to account for the smaller planes and avoid unnecessary aircraft subbing I can't imagine they'll upgrade less than 20 aircraft to service the transcon services. Their fleet is getting complex, they've delayed the delivery of the Max due to lack of funds [presumably]and now it looks like they'll have to reconfigure J in a third of their fleet.

 

[Bagpuss]

I wonder how big this transcon fleet is going to be? Given they will need to up the frequency to account for the smaller planes and avoid unnecessary aircraft subbing I can't imagine they'll upgrade less than 20 aircraft to service the transcon services. Their fleet is getting complex, they've delayed the delivery of the Max due to lack of funds [presumably]and now it looks like they'll have to reconfigure J in a third of their fleet.

I was thinking about this and I think a minimum of 10.
I've come to this from:
The original intention of 8 a330's
An extra few flights / an aircraft which can be used if one goes in for maintenance / goes tech (IE would do other routes too) with 2 airframes

My thinking remains that it will take 3 weeks per aircraft to upgrade (imagine they will put in WiFi etc.)

So that would take 30 weeks to complete. Doing various maths, it's going to take time (half a year) to get the product fully rolled out. They should have started this when they decided to send the a330's internationally.

 

[dk4]

Commercially any new seat probably needs to sit midway between the current A330 and B737 J seat, and offer more than the B777 Premium Economy seat.

Most flights between PER and the east coast (& vv) are in daylight hours, so I think that a lie flat seat is "too much bed" and "not enough seat".

IMO a 50" pitch, large, well-padded, cradle seat - one which is designed more for sitting and snoozing than sleeping, will (on longer domestic sectors) actually beat a QF A330 J seat, which IMO compromises too much in seat comfort, so it can turn into a bed!

 

[TomVexille]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

A beg step up would be some sort of shell seat, that make it easier to get out from window and use a laptop - to avoid seats reclining into your face which is probably all that is needed for most flights ( the red eyes the exception).

Something like the CX regional J seat?

 

[clipped_wings]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

I'd probably enjoy a transcon flight if I was reclining in a very (leg) supportive and cushioned lounge chair, rather than trying to hastily fall asleep lying flat in my work clothes.

I do love the long haul 777 J suite as you can really settle in and enjoy the 14+hours. And when it's on sale, the value is immeasurable. But for 5 hours - I'd prefer to pay a realistic fare for some quality seating and a good TV screen. Can't we jut get some La-Z-Boys on board?

 

[737NG]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Just came across this. AIX 2017: Boeing offers 737 lie-flat seats | Aircraft Interiors content from ATWOnline

 

[Boof1]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

If Geoffrey says it will be MINT then it will be MINT 'cos he is an Aviation EXPERT! Even Chicken Noodle News has called him an EXPERT

He says Jetblue have Mint on A320's but it features only on the A321's. So much for expert...

I actually don't understand the need for US style fully flat F seats on the Australian transcontinental. The US routes are very limited (depending on airline DCA/NYC/BOS/FLL/MIA - SFO/LAX ) with JetBlue soon to add SAN, SEA and LAS. There is some serious money there. By contrast the shorter ORD-LAX gets old style F seats, and it is slightly longer then MEL-PER.

A beg step up would be some sort of shell seat, that make it easier to get out from window and use a laptop - to avoid seats reclining into your face which is probably all that is needed for most flights ( the red eyes the exception).

I couldn't agree more with this post. We don't need fully flat beds on the transcon market in Australia and I think VA would be foolish to go with a lie flat product. The only time you really need a bed is the East bound red-eyes and even the longest one being PER-BNE has a block time around 4.5 hours.

Better to take the approach that HA have with the upcoming A321NEO interiors and put a decent recliner that suits the 4-5 hour flight times, but would also be a step up for the golden triangle. VA could configure all 737's with a product like this. The comment about the "step forward" in this article regarding lie flats couldn't be more appropriate for VA now: Hawaiian Marches to the Beat of Its Own Drum With New A321 Cabin | Cranky Flier

 

[DavidFlynn]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

We don't need fully flat beds on the transcon market in Australia and I think VA would be foolish to go with a lie flat product. The only time you really need a bed is the East bound red-eyes and even the longest one being PER-BNE has a block time around 4.5 hours.
Better to take the approach that HA have with the upcoming A321NEO interiors and put a decent recliner that suits the 4-5 hour flight times, but would also be a step up for the golden triangle. VA could configure all 737's with a product like this. The comment about the "step forward" in this article regarding lie flats couldn't be more appropriate for VA now: Hawaiian Marches to the Beat of Its Own Drum With New A321 Cabin | Cranky Flier

If we could turn back time (cue the Cher vocals!) to the days before Qantas and Virgin Australia both went lie-flat, I'd be 1000% in agreement here.

Hell, I'm still in agreement - I've often expressed the same notion that we don't really need these international-grade lie-flat seats on transcon. Australia sort of went warp-speed ahead from domestic-grade recliners in the earlier Qantas A330 era, to a brief stopover to the angled recliners of the early Virgin Australia A330s, and then bang, the fierce competition between both airlines saw them both roll out their current lie-flats. If I recall rightly Australia was even ahead of the US transcon market in moving in that direction.

And that's the issue: as Virgin already has lie-flat on east-west A330s, and Qantas has the same – and with a much larger fleer of domestic A330s – would it be considered a backwards step if Virgin went for a luxe 'regional business class' recliner, even something rather 'Minty' in finish? I suspect most of the market would see it that way, and I suspect that it'd play right into Qantas' hands.

 

[Blackswan]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

We don't need fully flat beds on the transcon market in Australia and I think VA would be foolish to go with a lie flat product. The only time you really need a bed is the East bound red-eyes and even the longest one being PER-BNE has a block time around 4.5 hours.

I'm Perth based, and never use the bed for the eastbound flight (I refuse to do red eyes). However, I regularly use it flying westbound (even in the AM) - I'm either exhausted from work, tired from partying too hard if flying back on a Sunday/Monday morning, or still fatigued after flying in from LAX. As soon as the seatbelt sign is switched off, I put the eyeshades on, and convert the seat to a bed. If it reverts back to a recliner, I'll actively seek out the QF A330 options.

 

[clipped_wings]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

And that's the issue: as Virgin already has lie-flat on east-west A330s, and Qantas has the same – and with a much larger fleer of domestic A330s – would it be considered a backwards step if Virgin went for a luxe 'regional business class' recliner, even something rather 'Minty' in finish? I suspect most of the market would see it that way, and I suspect that it'd play right into Qantas' hands.

If it reverts back to a recliner, I'll actively seek out the QF A330 options.

And there's your case in point David. We humans don't like nice things being taken away from us.

A precarious conundrum for the Men in Grey Suits around the Shiny Table.

 

[MH_fan]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

I also agree that the flat-bed seats are a bit of overkill on the transcon flights but a recliner like what VX have would be a big step backwards. An angled lie-flat seat in a 2x2 configuration is more than enough and having a subfleet of the 737s just servicing the transcons makes sense. Having them on flights less than 3 hours would be absolutely ridiculous!

 

[serfty]

Just remember where QF were heading before VA introduced their Coast to Coast service.

I think that without a doubt, domestically QF would be still on 2-2-2 38" pitch for the foreseeable future if not for VA's introduction of the ex EK and later 332's being a decent pitch; Qantas upped the ante with 1-2-1 which VA matched.

Here's some images of the 'new' 332 business seating as introduced by Qantas in 2010.

Originally Posted by tom911
These two photos I took may give a better view of the domestic A330 seat:

 

[moa999]

Qantas moved from 2-2-2 with the in-arm IFE as shown above
To the 2-3-2 with seatback IFE - their argument was the seat width was almost the same (due to the 2" gained from the IFE unit)

Of course that was much derided and ended up with the 'work table' installation

I think 2-3-2 would have gone anyway - it was really hated by the pax

But I agree that both pushed each other too far. While the flat bed is good for the red-eyes from Perth it isn't really needed for every other domestic flight

 

[Justchecking]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

And there's your case in point David. We humans don't like nice things being taken away from us.

A precarious conundrum for the Men in Grey Suits around the Shiny Table.

It may come down to pure economics and not be such a conundrum afterall. One has to remember, friends with deep pockets aside VA aren't in the position to be market leading. QF will match whatever they introduce and likely, QF will also match whatever they decide to take away. QF have the larger following and only need to ensure their offering is comparable to win the loyalty. VA have to actually exceed to win customers away. If they go lie flat it will only be because that novelty is required to entice pax onto a smaller aircraft.


But since we're pipe dreaming and just checking out nice business seat designs for single aisle aircraft I think Qatar's J seat on the 319 is rather nice. Albeit this is an all J configured aircraft and they are lie flat. But shell pod and the leather upholstery look rather refined.

http://www.tipsfortravellers.com/qatar-airways-business-one-review/

 

[clipped_wings]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

It may come down to pure economics and not be such a conundrum afterall. One has to remember, friends with deep pockets aside VA aren't in the position to be market leading. QF will match whatever they introduce and likely, QF will also match whatever they decide to take away. QF have the larger following and only need to ensure their offering is comparable to win the loyalty. VA have to actually exceed to win customers away. If they go lie flat it will only be because that novelty is required to entice pax onto a smaller aircraft.

Agreed. So perhaps the defining factor would be the soft product? An excellent FA and memorable food can trump an upmarket bed and lousy host any day, any flight.

 

[dajop]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Agreed. So perhaps the defining factor would be the soft product? An excellent FA and memorable food can trump an upmarket bed and lousy host any day, any flight.

Disagree with any day, any flight bit. For 3-5 hrs (which is the context of this thread, obviously) yes I agree. For a 12 hour overnight flight not so much.

 

[Justchecking]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Agreed. So perhaps the defining factor would be the soft product? An excellent FA and memorable food can trump an upmarket bed and lousy host any day, any flight.

But who has the most lousy hosts? This isn't Asia where being pleasing and amazing hostesses is a thing all of itself. We are talking about Aussies who often think near enough is good enough, even if it isn't.

 

[Pleb Status]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Agreed. So perhaps the defining factor would be the soft product? An excellent FA and memorable food can trump an upmarket bed and lousy host any day, any flight.

The VA transcon J service is already superior in almost every way to what QF offers.

However, the Qsheep are still happy to pay more to get less. It is a difficult position faced by all 'newcomers' into a market.