New baggage policy

[greenfish]

I'm sorry if you find it annoying - but what did you do under the old QF system where it was X pieces x 32kg (where X was 1 for plebs and more for status)????

It's a serious question???

Seriously - unless you just started flying - or you never flew domestically (ie. just to non-US international destinations with a 23kg total limit), then you had to deal with this exact system.

You make it sound like it was only just invented.

I am intimately aware of the differences in baggage allowances, and it frequently influences who I fly with. For example, when I was a non-status pax, I routinely flew Virgin Atlantic to the UK as their baggage allowance allowed for 1 piece of sporting equipment in addition to the basic allowance, so I could carry my bike.

Virgin's existing offer was superior to Qantas - that helped make me swing leisure flights to Virgin. Now the offering is the same as Qantas and in many other areas the Qantas offering is superior - so I'll move back to Qantas (for leisure flyiing). For business flying, I'll continue with my personal BFOD.

It is amazing how often that even the special sales fares from Virgin cost up to very similar to the Qantas fares when paying extra for baggage, food and IFE.

 

[kamchatsky]

I think some of the reaction is due to the overwhelming posts about how much better DJ was than QF - a lot it was quite condescending. Increasingly the difference between the two is narrowing - QF is getting better and DJ are "enhancing" downwards some of their offering. Use of the phrase "you now have the opportunity to pay for a bag" was quite telling for me.

Well I don't think there is any good way to express the "bad news". Should VA say "Sincere apologies but now we are going to change to piece system and too bad for you?!"

I haven't flown QF domestic for a while now so I do not know if QF is actually better, but all I know is that most of the time when I compare DJ and QF fares, QF prices is already priced in "free luggage" and more, and my past experience with VA is that they still serve us with a smile, unlike QF. They always seemed to go extra mile.

I actually do not want VA to include free luggage in their fares to make them "full service". It would just mean high prices for everyone and it actually have 1 less reason for people to be VA status pax (free luggage!).

I think people should realise that there is a cost to everything, and that includes DJ creating Virtual international network with SQ/EY/NZ/DL etc, as well as Fly Ahead, status match, free HH Gold/Diamond, fantastic Point + Pay rewards on J, plus a load of things that we never imagine we can get from VA. They are a listed company so at the end shareholder is king (and customer is queen).

 

[BAM1748]

This seems to put the onus and work back onto the passenger and helps with the automated check in processes, VA have found some upsides which they are using as the sell to the passenger and dismissing the negatives.

I will admit to sticking with QF over VA (even though I got an offer of a status match to gold with VA during last year) and a recent flight back from SFO to SYD via LAX seems to indicate I might have made the right choice for me. I was one bag and 35kg over limit, the extra charge was USD47, I knew there would be a charge but was surprised at the amount. I actually find the price difference between QF and VA for flights (inclusive of ad ons which I need when Ms BAM1748 travels) usually falls within a few dollars of each other and QF is often cheaper for the service I require.

What is the right choice for me maybe is not the right choice for others.

Matt

 

[Lowjhg]

If you read that post, Lowjhg is an international student. ie luggage for an extended stay, not just a holiday or business trip. You have made your point, but sarcasm directed toward someone who doesn't have your exact same flying patterns is pointless and rude (IMHO).

Lowjhg , hasn't VA stated these changes do not affect long haul international? Or are you short haul?

I read the post as longhaul transfer to shorthaul, which would be a pretty popular scenario for many students who naturally seek the cheapest fares.

swanning_it, yes this change concerns my domestic travel needs. Normally i book separately for international flights (SQ) and domestic flights (DJ) to avoid ticketing restrictions. Thus i can up fare on DJ and not interfering with the SQ ticket.

markis10, that is definitely the case, except its domestic. I fly SQ form SIN-MEL and DJ from MEL-CBR.

 

[markis10]

I am actually amazed with the amount of reaction from AFF in regard to change of the luggage allowance.

Personally I struggle to use 20kg checked luggage for domestic flights, let alone 69kg. For the last few years I have learned to pack light due to introduction of LCCs, auxillary fees and of course "Up In The Air". I think a lot of other people do that also.

In fact, most of the time we have 1 carry on luggage between my wife and I when travelling domestically. I am happier not carrying all these excess weight around the country.

Sure there are some people who can justify requirement of 69kg across many bags but I am pretty sure that it would be the minority of most population. Also the extra luggage cost is not expensive at all, and you do not need to weigh in for it. It is surely much better than an agent saying to you "Sorry you are over X kg and I am going to charge you huge amount of money for it" and then you all write reports about how DJ is not flexible to your needs Blah Blah Blah.

Whilst AFF is important for feedback for DJ (and probably QF), we are not the centre of universe of Australian aviation service industry.

Remember most of us got comped Platinum and Gold and Silver at the first place. Try to get that off QF (unless you hold large accounts)! We practically got these benefits upfront for nothing.

Sure it is part of them winning loyalty from us and we are all trying to re-qualify by putting either our cash or our employer's cash on the table. But is QF "Full Service Carrier" that much better? I mean sure they have included luggage and food in their ticket but they are already priced in and their food on board is very average anyway, and they are also calculated as per piece for luggage. As DJ Silver/Gold/Plat we get free luggage anyway. We are already saving money compare with QF.

So, it is not as bad as it looks. Sure we get less benefits but I think for most people (not all) it would not make a difference, or they won't even notice it. If you really need more luggage space, get a huge coat with 100 pockets in it.

I wonder if all these changes on luggage allowance is got to do with how companies of luggage handlers charges DJ for it (eg charging handling per piece of luggage etc)?

Interesting post Edison, I feel you have missed the point though which is why your expressing amazement at the reaction, as you mention weight quite a bit through your post but not pieces, which after all is what the change is about. I think once in 15 years I would have hit 60kg with my luggage as a business traveller, that was when I was carrying one of the first Intel Xeon servers in the world as part of my luggage, as I already have explained I frequently carry more than once piece of luggage though, specifically pop up banners and brochures that are left with the event concierge on arrival at the destination, now I need to either pack them or carry on.


Similar sorts of posts were made when QF bought in the piece system, with some QF staffers commenting that it was unlikely to really be an issue and things were beeing blown out of proportion , I note that subsequent posts by others at the front line after the introduction of the new rules indicated it was very much an issue for the average flyer, let alone an AFF member, and continues to be so till this day. That possibly explains the very recent backflip for musicians at least by QF!

 

[dk4]

2. Less pieces will be checked in on any given flight as people seek to consolidate bags, but they will have a higher average weight which will be appreciated by the baggage crew who mostly man handle the luggage given DJ fleet in the main is not containerised.

Ahhh, perhaps Virgin is less inclined to worry about the baggage crew from this perspective.

Imagine if you have outsourced to contract baggage service providers, who then charge you for their services on a "per bag" basis (so long as any given bag doesn't go over the maximum OH&S level), then minimising the quantity of bags loaded & unloaded would become an important goal for you?

Agree with the sentiment though, I normally travel carry-on only because it suits me (although I do wish an Australian airline would standardise to the European/North American limit @ around 20kg for the carry-on bag), but on the odd occasion that I do check domestic baggage, they are normally numerous in quantity but each at a small weight (effective for me, but now it would seem, not Virgin).

 

[cityloop]

Try putting the average pull up banner into most suitcases ( its the most common thing I get asked to carry at last minute), it rarely fits, yes I can repack to a point, but my point is business travelers are going to be hit by this, the very market DJ are trying to attract. And what about musicians, QF have just relented.....

I'm with you on this one. I generally have to carry one or two pull up banners and I usually pack them together in some large bubble wrap and check it in separately. They are very light but do not fit in a suitcase.

 

[kamchatsky]

Interesting post Edison, I feel you have missed the point though which is why your expressing amazement at the reaction, as you mention weight quite a bit through your post but not pieces, which after all is what the change is about. I think once in 15 years I would have hit 60kg with my luggage as a business traveller, that was when I was carrying one of the first Intel Xeon servers in the world as part of my luggage, as I already have explained I frequently carry more than once piece of luggage though, specifically pop up banners and brochures that are left with the event concierge on arrival at the destination, now I need to either pack them or carry on.


Similar sorts of posts were made when QF bought in the piece system, with some QF staffers commenting that it was unlikely to really be an issue and things were beeing blown out of proportion , I note that subsequent posts by others at the front line after the introduction of the new rules indicated it was very much an issue for the average flyer, let alone an AFF member, and continues to be so till this day. That possibly explains the very recent backflip for musicians at least by QF!

Hi Markis10, I know exactly what you mean but I still mentioned that it would be a minority that would affected rather than majority. I am not saying that people should just suck it up (as we have power to move with our feet and wallet) but I also said that it is not that bad. As we all know every change there is always someone who will be disadvantaged by the change and unfortunately you are in that camp with this change.

I am sure the major reason for this change is reduce costs for:
- processing bags at check-in (imagine check-in agent need to register and tag 4 small bags instead of 1 large one), reduce queue time
- Baggage handling (probably contractor charge DJ/QF on per bag basis)
- less chance of lost bags (as less bags processed), so less cost for register for lost bag, find it and deliver to home.

 

[greenfish]

Hi Markis10, I know exactly what you mean but I still mentioned that it would be a minority that would affected rather than majority. I am not saying that people should just suck it up (as we have power to move with our feet and wallet) but I also said that it is not that bad. As we all know every change there is always someone who will be disadvantaged by the change and unfortunately you are in that camp with this change.

It almost certainly does only affect a minority - and of their status pax, an even smaller minority - for me, less than 5% of the flights I pay for. Hence, why make the change for status pax? It loses a nice differentiator with QF, and I can't see how it can save significant money for the small proportion of fliers who hold status who also check multiple bags. It was a benefit I always appreciated and liked knowing it was there if I needed it, even if I didn't use it.

End of the world? No. Will it stop me flying Virgin? No. Does it shift the balance back towards QF? Yes.

 

[simongr]

Again though as people have mentioned this brings QF and VA closer - so what is next - Any Time Access? There are rational and reasonable reasons to eliminate that but it is differentiator between QF and VA.

 

[kamchatsky]

Again though as people have mentioned this brings QF and VA closer - so what is next - Any Time Access? There are rational and reasonable reasons to eliminate that but it is differentiator between QF and VA.

Ahh don't bring it up!

 

[BAM1748]

Again though as people have mentioned this brings QF and VA closer - so what is next - Any Time Access? There are rational and reasonable reasons to eliminate that but it is differentiator between QF and VA.

And VA is evening painting its planes white with a red marking on the tail these days!


Matt

 

[Mogul]

Humor me - do me a favour - take your last family vacation and price it up for this year - VA vs QF.

Include the necessary baggage fees for the non-status pax as you would need to on VA (I'm assuming you don't need to purchase extra baggage on QF??).

Honestly - do it - I'm interested in the answer????

I'm also interested in finding out whether this is a tangible loss - or just a moral one......

---------------------
I know I'm vocal in this thread - but I want to get to the facts of the matter.

This can either be a "whine for the sake of it" thread....

Or it can be a genuine feedback opportunity to VA based on factual objective assessment.

It's pretty clear from VA's comments so far that they simply treat it as a whine.

21/4/12 - 8.00am flight Syd to Perth

VA - $239 per person + $80.00 baggage (stroller, 2 x car seats, bag) + food at $15 per person = $1,096.00
Q - $279 per person + nothing (stroller, car seats + 2 x bags for Gold included) = $1,116.00


28/4/12 - 10.00 am flight Perth to Syd

VA - $239 per person + $80.00 baggage (stroller, 2 x car seats, bag) + food at $15 per person = $1,096.00
Q - $239 per person + nothing as above = $956.00


Total VA = $2,192.00

Total Q = $2,072.00

A $120 price advantage to Q.

 

[oz_mark]

Hmm, I thought specified infant items on VA:

• Pram/stroller
• Portable cot
• Car seat
• Baby capsule

fell outside the normal baggage limits.

Flying With Infants | Virgin Australia

or are they now included in the baggage limits?

 

[Mogul]

It seems like another total stuff up from VA. Depending where on their site you look you get different information.

Under the new baggage rules nothing is mentioned about infants / child seats etc. being FOC. Under another section it does mention that car seats are FOC.

VA really neede to sort these things out before releasing them as the confusion it creates is beyond belief.

 

[Virgin Australia]

It seems like another total stuff up from VA. Depending where on their site you look you get different information.

Under the new baggage rules nothing is mentioned about infants / child seats etc. being FOC. Under another section it does mention that car seats are FOC.

VA really neede to sort these things out before releasing them as the confusion it creates is beyond belief.

Bear in mind that the changes don't happen until May 16th.
So understandably, while we have "two rules", one prior to May 16th, and one after, it will be confusing.

To your question Mogul, nothing has changed. See below, for the existing policy, which remains (ie doesn't change)
[h=4]Carry-on Baggage[/h]

Guests travelling with infants may carry-on an extra bag containing articles for use in the cabin such as nappies or baby food.Children (2-11 years of age), in addition to the checked baggage allowance, are permitted:One car seat or booster seat per child as checked-in baggage Free of Charge irrespective of the weight.

(As found on this page of our website)


​

 

[Mogul]

Bear in mind that the changes don't happen until May 16th.
So understandably, while we have "two rules", one prior to May 16th, and one after, it will be confusing.

To your question Mogul, nothing has changed. See below, for the existing policy, which remains (ie doesn't change)
Carry-on Baggage

Guests travelling with infants may carry-on an extra bag containing articles for use in the cabin such as nappies or baby food.Children (2-11 years of age), in addition to the checked baggage allowance, are permitted:One car seat or booster seat per child as checked-in baggage Free of Charge irrespective of the weight.

(As found on this page of our website)


​

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that there will be 2 rules until the change over date.

What happens if flights are booked prior to the changerover for flights after the changeover?

I believe there should be something under the new baggage rules that clarifies the policy regarding infants / childs seats, etc.

 

[Fruitcake]

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that there will be 2 rules until the change over date.

What happens if flights are booked prior to the changerover for flights after the changeover?

I believe there should be something under the new baggage rules that clarifies the policy regarding infants / childs seats, etc.

The 'new limits' page clearly states that

"The new per piece checked baggage allowance will apply for booking and baggage changes made after 16 May 2012."
New Checked Baggage Policy | Virgin Australia

So there will be a period of time after 16 May where both rules are in operation, but definitely not before.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

I got excited when I saw the headline of this announcement in my inbox, and then opened it and was bitterly disappointed.

• If travelling on a Saver / Red e-Deal, QF wins (0kg vs 23kg)
• If you only have silver status with both carriers, QF wins (23kg VA vs 32kg QF)
• As for ease of qualifying for a free >23kg allowance, QF wins again (QF PS gets 32kgs, whereas VA Silver is only 23kg)

As my travel in the past 6 months has mostly switched to international as opposed to domestic, I've been flying QF more - because, let's face it, VA's just don't really fly to many int'l destinations on their own metal. That being said, my VA gold status will most likely soon drop to silver - so when it does come time to travel domestically again (particularly for shopping trips), my choices are to either fly DJ with only a 23kg allowance (while still having to pay for food & bev, as well as IFE on longer flights), or for usually around the same price, fly QF with a 32kg allowance (with free IFE, food & bev)... VA really aren't helping themselves win back my business in this situation!

 

[Moopere]

I am just astounded that so many people check multiple bags. i'm flat out checking one and I can't think of anything more uncomfortable than having to tote more than one bag.

I find a single large and heavy bag far more difficult to manoeuvre than 2 or even 3 much smaller bags. On long trips that are leisure I'll take a large roller, perhaps 25K, a small roller, maybe 10-15k and a laptop type bag.

When QF changed their policy the small roller stopped going into checkin and started finding space in the overhead bins. I still make it to my destination with everything I need ... but its hard for me to comprehend how moving luggage into the cabin is an improvement ... still presumably there is more luggage hold space now and that, also presumably, means more freight forwarding possibilities for QF. A bit of extra finagling about inside the cabin by the FA's and Pax to organise the ever decreasing overhead space is no big deal I suppose.