More OZ Airport Chaos coming!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Limewood

Established Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Posts
4,461
Here we go again as this union decides to make the public pay with long queues and travel disruption to us the flying public, instead of mediation and accepting the umpires decision. Last year on one of these rolling strikes in Perth it took me near 1.5 hours to get through immigration just as 3 int. aircraft arrived, rathe timely, thank heavens I was not in transit.
 
Boarder Force haven't been around long enough to complain about anything yet have they?
 
Problem when you merge government departments and want to make staff take the lowest deal on offer. I fully support the workers right to protect their pay and conditions.

***before the attack...no I don't work there, none of my family or friends work there, I would hate to be in their shoes***
 
One of the main issues is that staff can be posted anywhere/anytime, refusal is not an option. Compassionate transfers are being tightened up also. Not exactly a family friendly situation.
 
Problem when you merge government departments and want to make staff take the lowest deal on offer. I fully support the workers right to protect their pay and conditions.

***before the attack...no I don't work there, none of my family or friends work there, I would hate to be in their shoes***
Straw man argument. It's not about their rights, it's about them taking their grievances out on the travelling public, who have no say either way.
 
The Australian economy is doomed. Things like this are the reason why me and most of the younger entrepreneurial generation are not investing in Australia. It is too risk, costly, and envious to make succeeding in Australia worthwhile.
 
Straw man argument. It's not about their rights, it's about them taking their grievances out on the travelling public, who have no say either way.

It is about their rights, up to the employer to not let the public be affected. up to the employer to not be recalcitrant. Or should we all just be slaves.

The Australian economy is doomed. Things like this are the reason why me and most of the younger entrepreneurial generation are not investing in Australia. It is too risk, costly, and envious to make succeeding in Australia worthwhile.

It's not risky for employers who are prepared to be ethical in their dealings with employees.
 
Straw man argument. It's not about their rights, it's about them taking their grievances out on the travelling public, who have no say either way.

So how should they take industrial action then? Their employer isn't interested in treating them decently?
 
If workers never took industrial action which inconvenienced the public we wouldn't have weekends, sick pay, holiday pay or most of the conditions we take for granted.
Employers never give workers a benefit because they're kind or because they think it's fair.
And it is simply ignorant to suggest that taking protected industrial action is inconsistent with accepting the decision of the independent umpire.
Protected industrial action is enshrined in legislation as a part of the bargaining process.
They are legally entitled to go on strike.
 
It is about their rights, up to the employer to not let the public be affected. up to the employer to not be recalcitrant. Or should we all just be slaves.
It's not risky for employers who are prepared to be ethical in their dealings with employees.

Slaves and ethical is it? Hyperbole anyone? :rolleyes:

So how should they take industrial action then? Their employer isn't interested in treating them decently?

More hyperbole. How should they take industrial action? I dunno - how about inconveniencing the management, not the flying public ,who even if they are sympathetic, can't actually do anything in the dispute.


If workers never took industrial action which inconvenienced the public we wouldn't have weekends, sick pay, holiday pay or most of the conditions we take for granted.<snip>.

More hyperbole.

Employers never give workers a benefit because they're kind or because they think it's fair.

Ditto. You don't actually believe that stuff, do you?

Protected industrial action is enshrined in legislation as a part of the bargaining process. They are legally entitled to go on strike.

Straw man again. None of that is in dispute. Its about the union targeting the flying public, rather than the management they are in dispute with. Soft targets.


Honestly, if the above is the best that can be argued against the proposition "Border Force workers shouldn't target the flying public", then the case is totally made in the affirmative.

In the meantime, here is something to hum along to.
 
Read our AFF credit card guides and start earning more points now.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Straw man argument. It's not about their rights, it's about them taking their grievances out on the travelling public, who have no say either way.

Agreed - don't like it, can't get your way via the proper negotiation channels - then strike in the form of not processing boring administration paperwork for the minister - the second you take action like this - you can F off and go and find a real job in the private sector with zero empathy from me.

Surely the Essential Services Act covers this kind of thing.....
 
It would take too long to write a treatise on economic history documenting the transition from feudalism to capitalism and it would be deleted for being off topic.
Although such an academic approach might be preferable to resorting to high school debating tactics.

However, it is not hyperbole to state that it is organised labour, and it's preparedness to take industrial action, which is entirely responsible for the working conditions which we take for granted today.
The question of whether employers would give workers decent conditions out of goodwill is not a hypothetical one. It is not a question of belief.
It is a question which can be answered in two ways. First, through a historical comparison.
We have seen what working conditions are like without unions and industrial action. That was responsible for the deadly mines and factories of the 19th century.
The second is through a contemporary international comparison. In all countries where organised labour (unions) are weak, working conditions are worse.
Since my learned friend dislikes hyperbole, I won't resort to the extreme examples such as the UAE and Qatar.
Instead I will cite the example of the USA where many workers subsist almost if not entirely on tips, and the minimum wage is around $7.

This injustice is not only bad for workers, it is bad for society. It leads to levels of inequality which are unsustainable. The current state of politics in the USA confirms this, with the working and middle classes losing faith in the political establishment and turning out of desperation to Bernie Sanders on the left and Donald Trump on the right. Ultimately, it leads to violence and revolution.

When I pointed out that workers were legally entitled to strike, and that it was wrong to characterise this as "refusing to accept the umpire's decision" I was not arguing against a straw man.
I was arguing against this direct statement:
Here we go again as this union decides to make the public pay with long queues and travel disruption to us the flying public, instead of mediation and accepting the umpires decision.
This is factually incorrect because protected industrial action is part of the negotiation process PRIOR TO the umpire (FWC) making a decision.

The right to strike is not a separate issue to the right to cause inconvenience to the public. If a strike had no impact, it would not be an effective tactic.
If you are a bus driver you have options such as refusing to collect fares which negatively impact the employer but are beneficial to the public.
Border Force staff don't have that option. They can't let people in or out without the standard immigration checks.
We are lucky they don't seek to establish a picket line and bring international travel to a complete halt.

If you can think of an effective tactic which would impact the government without impacting the travelling public at all, please suggest it.
But if your only point is that you don't like unions, or working people, or strikes in general, then please just say that, and enjoy your KFC.

trump kfc.jpg
 
Should/Do the airports contribute at all?

Back in March the Australian reported that MEL's carpark had a profit of $106 million beetwen 2014-15, while Perth didn't do as well by "only" making $41 million.
 
It would take too long to write a treatise on economic history documenting the transition from feudalism to capitalism and it would be deleted for being off topic.
Although such an academic approach might be preferable to resorting to high school debating tactics.

<snip for space>

Going from hyperbole to caricature. What should do I do to follow that argument? Show a picture of Marx?

Bullying the public - who can't do anything to rectify what they are being bullied for - is just pathetic and starkly demonstrates the failure of the union reps. :(
 
No matter what the claim is they should not be allowed to treat the flying public this way, there should be mandatory arbitration where both sides provide their respective case and then stand by the adjudicated result, end of story.
 
No matter what the claim is they should not be allowed to treat the flying public this way, there should be mandatory arbitration where both sides provide their respective case and then stand by the adjudicated result, end of story.

There was. It was called centralised wage fixing, by the arbitration commission, and employers wanted it gone.
 
Are you saying there is no wage arbitration in Australia anymore?

Do unions have too have a secret ballot on strikes these days?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top