Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations

[Quickstatus]

f I was to book an EK flight today for 27th March that is cancelled due to the ongoing problems, will a fee free refund occur (for travel before 31 March according to website) or the normal fare conditions $US375 cancellation fee.?

What does EK say?

 

[Snouter]

What does EK say?

Currently on hold on chat. Been an hour so far

 

[Saab34]

They were supposedly pretty heavily hedged.

19% unhedged it seems. Looks like Virgin is in a good spot. Qantas will certainly have the ability to pull higher revenue from International ops and they are actively chasing capacity in the coming months.

Some details from the AFR just now.

Virgin Australia has not increased its fares and is hedged across both fuel and refining margins, leaving it much less exposed to global volatility.

Jet fuel prices have surged much faster than oil prices and are up 150 per cent in the past fortnight.

Although Qantas has hedged 82 per cent of its second-half jet fuel costs against the Brent crude benchmark, its refining margins are unhedged, leaving it exposed to some of the fluctuations.

Air New Zealand said the spread had widened from about $US22 a barrel before the conflict to as high as $US115 a barrel, as it withdrew guidance on jet fuel volatility.

Evans and Partners analyst Cameron McDonald said the blowout in spreads would result in Qantas fuel costs increasing by $14.8 million a day.

 

[LionKing]

Cathay Pacific is adding additional services to Heathrow to accommodate for HKers and others to go back to the UK.

 

[Snouter]

Currently on hold on chat. Been an hour so far

Just heard from EK, the fee free refund will apply. Have a photo of the chat.

 

[transpactraveller]

Cathay Pacific is adding additional services to Heathrow to accommodate for HKers and others to go back to the UK.

They have also cancelled their Middle East flights until the end of the month.

 

[Chrizztofa]

Hi All,
Would appreciate some advice on obtaining a refund/voucher from QR. We are scheduled to fly SIN-DOH-YYZ in mid-April (returning early May).

We've since found alternative flights so will be looking to obtain a refund/voucher from QR. If we cancel a SGD$576 refund fee currently applies (and we incur a FX loss as the AUD/SGD rate has deteriorated since booking), whereas we can get the full value (in SGD) if we take the voucher.

Is there any benefit to taking the refund/voucher now, or can we wait until early April to see if QR extend the dates eligible for refunds (or take a voucher that has a slightly later expiry period)?

 

[stu961]

Just heard from EK, the fee free refund will apply. Have a photo of the chat.

Sounds like a free call option to me.... I had been thinking about doing the same thing myself but the flights I need to "hedge" are not until May so no free/need at the moment.

 

[stu961]

Never let a good opportunity go by...

best in the "game"...... could add an "ing"....

 

[stu961]

Hi All,
Would appreciate some advice on obtaining a refund/voucher from QR. We are scheduled to fly SIN-DOH-YYZ in mid-April (returning early May).

We've since found alternative flights so will be looking to obtain a refund/voucher from QR. If we cancel a SGD$576 refund fee currently applies (and we incur a FX loss as the AUD/SGD rate has deteriorated since booking), whereas we can get the full value (in SGD) if we take the voucher.

Is there any benefit to taking the refund/voucher now, or can we wait until early April to see if QR extend the dates eligible for refunds (or take a voucher that has a slightly later expiry period)?

Couple questions if it was me... which airline/flights would I prefer, up to what date can I cancel either set of fares and is cost of cancellation fixed until that date. The big financial risk to delay is the scenario that QR suddenly starts flying and you can't cancel either airline without significant financial cost above the 576. If 576 is your max cost until say 1 week from departure then what is the downside of delaying?

 

[tradingup]

Hi Everyone,
I would like to ask all the more experienced members for their advice on the following situation.

I am currently in Europe and booked to fly home on QR in J (paid) flying from Sofia on 2 April, with a four day stopover in Doha and then on to Sydney on 6 April all on the one PNR. The flights were booked directly with Qatar Airways, but the Doha to Sydney leg is one of the Virgin associated flights.

Apart from it being being unfortunate timing for an extended stopover in Doha, what does this mean for claiming re-routing rights under EU261. Am I only covered for the Sofia to Doha segment or because it is on the one PNR, all the way home to Sydney.

TBH, I would prefer a re-routing on another airline and avoid the ME altogether, or if unavoidable skip the Doha stopover and fly through to Sydney.
If Australia has a do not travel warning for Qatar, would Qatar Airways still try to fly me through Doha?
I flew through Dubai two days before the WAR started and Initially I had hoped the WAR would be finished before my fly home dates.
From reading through this thread, I am not sure what to expect from Qatar. What would you do?

 

[RooFlyer]

Is there any benefit to taking the refund/voucher now, or can we wait until early April to see if QR extend the dates eligible for refunds (or take a voucher that has a slightly later expiry period)?

Wait until your flight falls within a total refund/rebook window. If they are flying again by then and you still don't want to fly QR, cancel.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Hi Everyone,
I would like to ask all the more experienced members for their advice on the following situation.

I am currently in Europe and booked to fly home on QR in J (paid) flying from Sofia on 2 April, with a four day stopover in Doha and then on to Sydney on 6 April all on the one PNR. The flights were booked directly with Qatar Airways, but the Doha to Sydney leg is one of the Virgin associated flights.

Apart from it being being unfortunate timing for an extended stopover in Doha, what does this mean for claiming re-routing rights under EU261. Am I only covered for the Sofia to Doha segment or because it is on the one PNR, all the way home to Sydney.

TBH, I would prefer a re-routing on another airline and avoid the ME altogether, or if unavoidable skip the Doha stopover and fly through to Sydney.
If Australia has a do not travel warning for Qatar, would Qatar Airways still try to fly me through Doha?
I flew through Dubai two days before the WAR started and Initially I had hoped the WAR would be finished before my fly home dates.
From reading through this thread, I am not sure what to expect from Qatar. What would you do?

EU261 covers your entire journey including any connections.

So if QR cancels the SOF-DOH they need to re-route you to SYD.

EU261 only kicks in once QR cancels the flight… so could be as little as 24-48 hours before departure.

In theory I suppose they could re-route you on EK if EK was still flying, or even on something like Saudis via JED and SIN/KUL to SYD. You’d hope they wouldn’t fly you via a ‘do not travel’ hub, but I haven’t read anything definitive on that situation.

QR’s ‘regular’ rebooking policy seems a little more generous and may allow the re-routing on a select number of airlines, and possibly further in advance than 24-48 hours. But they seem to have withdrawn this from their latest travel advisory? (now offering a choice of two date changes or refund).

If your flight is cancelled ex EU, research some options avoiding the gulf. When QR gives you options to re-route, feel free to suggest the routing you have found.

 

[Seat0B]

If Australia has a do not travel warning for Qatar, would Qatar Airways still try to fly me through Doha?

As far as I am aware, the travel warnings have no strict legal effect to operate as a ban on travel - they are “advisory” notices to Australians that the Australian government does not regard it as prudent to travel to these locations. So I don’t think QR would have any legal obligation to avoid flying Australian pax through Doha because of a DNT warning. They may perhaps feel a commercial or PR obligation to re route you. By comparison, closed airspace does have legal effect - if a country closes its airspace then it is not legal to fly in contravention of that airspace closure.

Your pickle is that the airspace is now at least partially open, but for very sensible reasons, you want to change your journey to either avoid Doha altogether or shorten the stay there. And the airlines are tending to leave cancellations to the last minute - 24 to 48 hrs is common at the moment. I feel like your best bet financially at the moment is to sit tight and wait to see if your flights re cancelled by QR. This gives you a lot of options as described by @MEL_Traveller in their post above.

I know this does not give you much peace of mind, so you might feel it’s worth booking an alternative set of flights home, with good cancellation conditions, if you have the finances to do so. If things settle down and you want to go via Doha, then cancel these Plan B flights and be happy to pay the fees as cheap war insurance. If QR does not cancel but you still don’t want to fly to Doha, what would it cost you to cancel your existing flights? But it would be good to have a Plan B in place as last minute scrambling for flights is exhausting and expensive as we found out when rearranging flights for our daughter last week.

And of course, your travel insurance won’t cover you while you are in a DNT area.

I hope it works out for you. Post again to update us all please.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As far as I am aware, the travel warnings have no strict legal effect to operate as a ban on travel - they are “advisory” notices to Australians that the Australian government does not regard it as prudent to travel to these locations. So I don’t think QR would have any legal obligation to avoid flying Australian pax through Doha because of a DNT warning. They may perhaps feel a commercial or PR obligation to re route you. By comparison, closed airspace does have legal effect - if a country closes its airspace then it is not legal to fly in contravention of that airspace closure.

I wonder, if from Australia, the ‘do not travel’ means ACL could somehow kick in? Products are supposed to be fit for purpose… which is the flight itself, but the flight itself should also be as safe as possible, meet all regulatory requirements, and to some extent, possibly, provide suitable enjoyment and amenities. It’s also not unreasonable to expect the flight you are about to take would be covered by your travel insurance (which may be invalidated for DNT).

Taking you into an active war zone might not meet those standards?

 

[Noonan53]

Is the flight pattern airlines use to Istanbul from Singapore and Hong Kong safe re Ukraine and Iran wars?
Trying to find safe paths/ airlines to get from Melbourne to Germany.

 

[Quickstatus]

Welcome @Noonan53 to AFF!!!

Probably best to not have a separate thread on this. It is already discussed in the Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations thread. From about page 24 onwards will be about right for you to be able to get most of what you need.

Have you considered flying with the Japanese airlines - JL and NH who will get you to Europe via the North ofCanada and via Greenland?.
But check out that thread rather than replying here.

 

[Chrizztofa]

Couple questions if it was me... which airline/flights would I prefer, up to what date can I cancel either set of fares and is cost of cancellation fixed until that date. The big financial risk to delay is the scenario that QR suddenly starts flying and you can't cancel either airline without significant financial cost above the 576. If 576 is your max cost until say 1 week from departure then what is the downside of delaying?

Wait until your flight falls within a total refund/rebook window. If they are flying again by then and you still don't want to fly QR, cancel.

Thanks both for your thoughts. I was inclined to wait so I'm glad we're of the same mind!

We've booked and will be flying BR, so will not take the QR flights even if Qatari airspace reopens in time.

The QR fare conditions suggest the refund fees can vary up to about SGD$780 so there's a chance it goes up before departure. However we're happy to take the voucher if the refund fee increases, as we have been long-time QR flyers, and once things start settling down we expect to go through DOH again in the future.

Thanks again!

 

[Seat0B]

I wonder, if from Australia, the ‘do not travel’ means ACL could somehow kick in? Products are supposed to be fit for purpose… which is the flight itself, but the flight itself should also be as safe as possible, meet all regulatory requirements, and to some extent, possibly, provide suitable enjoyment and amenities. It’s also not unreasonable to expect the flight you are about to take would be covered by your travel insurance (which may be invalidated for DNT).

Taking you into an active war zone might not meet those standards?

these are fantastic questions and I can see the line of argument that could be run. I really hope that someone gets a chance to test this - just not me! Yes I know I am a NIMBY, but I simply lack the time and energy for a protracted legal battle.

 

[clifford]

Wait until your flight falls within a total refund/rebook window. If they are flying again by then and you still don't want to fly QR, cancel.

That's sound advice and basically what I'm doing.

I have an EY J ticket to MXP in a couple of weeks time and have decided not to fly it at all. Too many risks IMO.

I have decided to stay in Oz for the time being and leave any International trips for at least a couple of months to see how it all pans out. So I have booked a week just before Easter in a nice apartment on the Gold Coast for a bit of R&R, and I'm actually quite looking forward to it. Hopefully very little stress at all.

I'll just wait to see if my EY ticket becomes fully refundable, but if not, I'll cancel it anyway and wear the cost.