MH122 diverted back to SYD due to security incident

[RooFlyer]

Looks like a pretty clear assessment of what the risk is on-board could be gained by watching Twitter. For instance:





Frankly, those on-board didn't appear too threatened.

They would have had AFP on the task within minutes.

That doesn't mean they storm the plane in minutes. I am sure they were talking to the captain and working out the best way to do with it.

The Lindt Cafe situation went on for many, many hours.

There was about 60-80 mins from the point the plane turned round until it landed. That's a bit of time for threat to be assessed and on-ground material to be looked at. Presumably they have protocols etc when this sort of thing happens so things happen quick.

And no, I'm not suggesting that its easy or straight forward or it should be rushed. But the clock didn't start when the plane landed.

From news reports, the plane was 'stormed' (???) 4.5 hours after turn-around and 3 hours after landing.

 

[Saab34]

Presumably they have protocols etc when this sort of thing happens so things happen quick.

Not always.

The Melbourne event didn’t happen quick, special ops team arrived 30 mins after engine shutdown, and they couldn’t find the correct firearms and armour, further delaying an arrival.

The Victorian Premier typically weaved their way out of that one.

 

[justinbrett]

There was about 60-80 mins from the point the plane turned round until it landed. That's a bit of time for threat to be assessed and on-ground material to be looked at. Presumably they have protocols etc when this sort of thing happens so things happen quick.

And no, I'm not suggesting that its easy or straight forward or it should be rushed. But the clock didn't start when the plane landed.

From news reports, the plane was 'stormed' (???) 4.5 hours after turn-around and 3 hours after landing.

I'm not sure any of those tweets were made in the air, so I think information would have been limited until the aircraft landed.

I have been on the receiving end of a radio call that required me to call AFP on behalf of the aircraft (much less serious than this one, but still requiring AFP). There's a lot of factors at play and a lot of limitations (you generally don't talk about this stuff over unsecure radio that every plane spotter can listen to). They obviously thought the threat was more than just a regular disruptive pax - otherwise they would have just gone straight to the gate.

I wouldn't be making judgements from a couple of tweets and some rushed news reports.

 

[Harrison_133]

The aircraft has now been moved to a bay at the terminal and runway reopened, with the first arrival currently on approach to 16R.

 

[Kendall Roy]

Plane started moving around 4.5 hours after initial landing back to the gate, with departures only just resumed on 16R/34L.

Do better AFP/SYD!

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2023

The aircraft has now been moved to a bay at the terminal and runway reopened, with the first arrival currently on approach to 16R.

Should've happened in the first place! Plenty of space in SYD away from the gates that could be ring fenced for further investigation.

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm not sure any of those tweets were made in the air, so I think information would have been limited until the aircraft landed.

You don't think the pilots would have been radioing back info from the cabin crew en route? Seat, name on manifest, nature of disruption? You'd think in an hour or so those on the ground could get quite a bit of intelligence on an internationally-cleared pax.

But you are right about the Twitter videos - the one I took a still from - the lady holding a purse standing next to the FA with the disruptive pax kneeling in the aisle - was timestamped about an hour before the police came aboard. By the way, the video of that still shows a child standing by the lady with the purse. Everyone seemed pretty relaxed. I mean - smiling lady and child standing a few quick strides from the guy, who's kneeling, looking down (presumably praying)???

Why the heck they didn't grab and restrain the guy I guess will be revealed in due course - well, I think I can guess the reason and I can respect cultural norms; and maybe they didn't think the guy was dangerous.

 

[Kendall Roy]

cultural norms;

Go out the window when your actions close 16R/34L at YSSY!

 

[Saab34]

You don't think the pilots would have been radioing back info from the cabin crew en route? Seat, name on manifest, nature of disruption? You'd think in an hour or so those on the ground could get quite a bit of intelligence on an internationally-cleared pax.

But you are right about the Twitter videos - the one I took a still from - the lady holding a purse standing next to the FA with the disruptive pax kneeling in the aisle - was timestamped about an hour before the police came aboard. By the way, the video of that still shows a child standing by the lady with the purse. Everyone seemed pretty relaxed. I mean - smiling lady and child standing a few quick strides from the guy, who's kneeling, looking down (presumably praying)???

Why the heck they didn't grab and restrain the guy I guess will be revealed in due course - well, I think I can guess the reason and I can respect cultural norms; and maybe they didn't think the guy was dangerous.

He just seems like a loony. The authorities likely take a different approach and prepare for all scenarios, including the worst.

 

[RooFlyer]

He just seems like a loony. The authorities likely take a different approach and prepare for all scenarios, including the worst.

Sure, I appreciate that, and when its my cough on the line, that'll be good, too. But surely the outside authorities are talking to those inside, if not getting a live stream. I mean, kids and ladies smiling just along from the guy?

From the comfort of my lounge chair, I'm guessing that the threat beyond those within immediate reach of the guy was concluded to be "low to very low" within an hour or so of being on the ground (earlier on-board) and the final hour or so was bureaucratic box-ticking (hopefully not just locating firearms and armour )

 

[justinbrett]

You don't think the pilots would have been radioing back info from the cabin crew en route? Seat, name on manifest, nature of disruption? You'd think in an hour or so those on the ground could get quite a bit of intelligence on an internationally-cleared pax.

We don't know what was known by the crew prior to touchdown. For all we know it could have started like a regular disruptive passenger that escalated closer to landing - or even after.

All the intelligence in the world couldn't clear the threat 100%. And this is MH... they've got - shall we say - history.

ATC radio is unsecure - everyone can hear - quite likely they won't use that for sensitive details unless essential. In the incident I referenced above, at our aerodrome we had an established codeword that operators quoted to ATC that covertly signified a requirement for AFP.

They would have had a sat phone which could have (and probably was used) - maybe via their company HQ (who again, probably took this ultra conservatively, given their recent history).

Also keep in mind, this isn't a plan made made between two individuals - there would be entire emergency management committee meetings made up of AFP/ATC/SACL planning and executing this.

It will all come out in the coming days and weeks, but I wouldn't be so quick to make judgements.

 

[jrfsp]

If this was anywhere else in the world the police would have been on there in 5 minutes

 

[Must...Fly!]

Not always.

The Melbourne event didn’t happen quick, special ops team arrived 30 mins after engine shutdown, and they couldn’t find the correct firearms and armour, further delaying an arrival.

The Victorian Government typically weaved their way out of that one.

That incident was a complete debacle from start to finish and yes a lot of lessons were learnt by those who had to learn them.

 

[justinbrett]

Having done some further reading - Twitter user https://twitter.com/chzaib has a good timeline of events.

They were told pretty soon after landing that "...before we get busses or goto terminal, Sydney Airport authorities are doing security checks, and can’t give us any time". That seems to have taken a very long time.

In the end they left the plane with all their belongings on board, and AFP are doing a complete sweep of the aircraft. Seems they are taking no chances.

 

[RooFlyer]

It will all come out in the coming days and weeks, but I wouldn't be so quick to make judgements.

I'm not making judgements . Just observing what was being filmed on board while the main runway at SYD was closed for about 3 -4 hours. As in, a group of people lounging around the cabin of an aircraft while a chap prayed in the aisle between talking to (hectoring) others and kids up and playing nearby.

Oh, and I don't doubt that there is whole l-o-o-o-n-g list of people needing to get involved and have committee meetings /clear with successive layers of management/bureaucracy; inform AFP media office; escalate .... ; execute .... ;

 

[RooFlyer]

AFP are doing a complete sweep of the aircraft. Seems they are taking no chances.

Well, fair enough. The pax's journey and SYD operations have been completely rooted for the night, so might as well give the troops a bit of real-life training to break the usual boredom.

 

[justinbrett]

I'm not making judgements . Just observing what was being filmed on board while the main runway at SYD was closed for about 3 -4 hours. As in, a group of people lounging around the cabin of an aircraft while a chap prayed in the aisle between talking to (probably hectoring) others and kids up and playing nearby.

Oh, and I don't doubt that there is whole l-o-o-o-n-g list of people needing to get involved and have committee meetings /clear with successive layers of management/bureaucracy; inform AFP media office; escalate .... ; execute .... ;

Did you see replies from the same user of the video you are referencing?

11 minutes later the video shows things have escalated rather quickly.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691000858073522176

We're all seeing short snapshots of what happened. Not the complete picture. In a period of hours there will be moments of excitement and other moments of "relaxation".

 

[RooFlyer]

Did you see replies from the same user of the video you are referencing?

11 minutes later the video shows things have escalated rather quickly.

No to seeing replies, I don't have an X account.

Escalated it seems to a guy shouting and being restrained back into a seat (not unheard of on JQ Bali flights?); not that quickly; by the time-stamp, this was hours after landing. I mean, the longer the stand-off, the more agitated the guy is going to get, right?

 

[justinbrett]

No to seeing replies, I don't have an X account.

Escalated it seems to a guy shouting and being restrained back into a seat (not unheard of on JQ Bali flights?); not that quickly; by the time-stamp, this was hours after landing. I mean, the longer the stand-off, the more agitated the guy is going to get, right?

The guy threatened to blow the plane up, this isn't your average drunk Bali pax. I'm not sure why you're so willing to make judgements based on so little information. I'm sure as hell not. Once a situation like that occurs they're not going to take any chances.

From another report:
Jawad naz_r from Sydney, whose friend was on board, said the man waited until the plane hit cruising altitude before making his disturbing claims.

“My friend said he waited, 20 to 25 minutes … he was yelling at the passenger next to him, had the backpack on his chest,” Mr naz_r said.

“Then this guy launches out of his seat with a backpack strapped ON FRONT and starts losing it. Yelling at the top of his lungs and ‘preaching’ incomprehensibly,” she wrote.

“He was stalking the aisles getting in the faces of passengers. Cabin staff came through to contain him and he kicked off even more.

“(He) unzipped his backpack, put his hands in, made barely veiled threats about having something dangerous in it screaming at the top of his lungs right next to my seat. Never been so scared.

“(He) arced up again and tried to take on a passenger who stood up to him. Lord help us if we ever have a more serious incident.”

 

[DC3]

I guess all of the facts will come out eventually

 

[AIRwin]

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nst-viral/2023/08/942964/nstviral-mh122-cabin-crew-praised-professionalism-handling-disruptive