Masks rules - Airline Enforcement?

[Mr H]

Personal data point or not, the WHO and many country health authorities have recommended a range of measures to counter the spread. They’re not restrictive and if they work - even for some - I can’t see any reason to advocate against them.

Public policy often encounters the free-rider problem where a person benefits from a collective action but refuses to participate themselves. It seems quite appropriate find free-riders on a frequent flyer forum.

 

[cwphoto]

They’re not restrictive and if they work - even for some - I can’t see any reason to advocate against them.

But they are restrictive, hence the advocacy against.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Public policy often encounters the free-rider problem where a person benefits from a collective action but refuses to participate themselves. It seems quite appropriate find free-riders on a frequent flyer forum.

True. But I wonder if it works both ways? With so many people having had covid in the UK I guess those who haven’t had it benefit from some sort of herd immunity?

 

[lovestotravel]

Can anyone explain (rhetorical question) why, when I took my mother to a public hospital clinic she was allowed to keep wearing her surgical face mask whilst I as her career was required to remove my brand new N95 mask and put their provided N95 mask on

Because they are a joke, having recently dealt with the Austin Hospital during January and February as a carer for my Mum the treatment each time was different.

Emergency department a few times, allowed in with an surgical mask, other times swapped to an N95, Mum didn't always have to change when I did.

Emergency department waiting room, allowed to stay a few times, others kicked out by security as the nurse in charge said I had to leave "due to Covid and no visitors" yet people sitting maskless and old towels and rubbish all over the place.

I was let into the ED treatment area a few times, others nope, not happening, and kicked out by security after I refused to leave my elderly mother alone.

All up to the nurse in charge as to what they will allow/enforce as a carer, which reminds me I must chase up my complaint to the Austin Health board and AHPRA about one of the nurses in charge that caused my issues.

 

[Quickstatus]

Delaying all those steps pending full medical research could be detrimental.

A Mask RCT doesn’t take 2 years to results. Policies can be implemented first then concurrently studied

majority of people would have no idea where they “caught it”

That’s why they had contact tracers and apps

Can anyone explain

No, there have been weird rules.
One last week:
Woman came to hospital with partner to give birth
Both Rat neg
Partner present during birthing process and prior to admission.
The next day partner rat pos. Woman rat neg
The hospital said the partner had to go home while the woman had to isolated in hospital and baby put in special care nursery - effectively all 3 in 3 different places.
We stepped in and inserted some logic which was to assume that the woman had been exposed and so should be considered positive
Eventually the hospital agreed to let the woman and partner isolate together and the baby would be in special care nursery
As of today woman still Rat neg and asymptomatic.
Benefit is that she had support in the postnatal period.

Bureaucrats lose sight of the fact that there are people involved. Most would say they would rather be with their loved ones than be prevented from seeing them due to some seemingly arbitrary rule that really had no basis in science. People died without their family at their side because of rules. I have found that abhorrent in this pandemic.

 

[MelMel]

Because they are a joke, having recently dealt with the Austin Hospital during January and February as a carer for my Mum the treatment each time was different.

Emergency department a few times, allowed in with an surgical mask, other times swapped to an N95, Mum didn't always have to change when I did.

Emergency department waiting room, allowed to stay a few times, others kicked out by security as the nurse in charge said I had to leave "due to Covid and no visitors" yet people sitting maskless and old towels and rubbish all over the place.

I was let into the ED treatment area a few times, others nope, not happening, and kicked out by security after I refused to leave my elderly mother alone.

All up to the nurse in charge as to what they will allow/enforce as a carer, which reminds me I must chase up my complaint to the Austin Health board and AHPRA about one of the nurses in charge that caused my issues.

Interesting, my incident was also at Austin Health

 

[drron]

Some more reading on Masks. This was from Oxford early in the pandemic summarising the lack of evidence.
Also pointing out that the few studies of Mask wearing with influenza showed no effect.
And this assuming a risk reduction of 40% for wearing a mask the numbers prevented are small.

Norway’s Institute for Public Health reported that if masks did work then any difference in infection rates would be small when infection rates are low: assuming 20% asymptomatics and a risk reduction of 40% for wearing masks, 200 000 people would need to wear one to prevent one new infection per week. 6

Masking lack of evidence with politics - The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

Tom Jefferson, Carl Heneghan The increasing polarised and politicised views 1 on whether to wear masks in public during the

www.cebm.net

And those who insist that the WHO recommends masks don't see the whole story-

The World Health Organization (WHO) and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (15) strongly recommend that persons with symptoms or known infection wear masks to prevent transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to others (source control) (16). However, WHO acknowledges that we lack evidence that wearing a mask protects healthy persons from SARS-CoV-2 (prevention)

And possibly on many issues we are too trusting of scientists.

The Problem With Science is Scientists

A perfect method is complicated by flawed, human practitioners.

stemplet74.substack.com

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

Published research findings are sometimes refuted by subsequent evidence, says Ioannidis, with ensuing confusion and disappointment.

journals.plos.org

 

[Quickstatus]

those who haven’t had it benefit from some sort of herd

And it has always been this for all sorts of issues - and so it should be that the benefits to society must always outweigh the costs, and those who benefit are not expected to pay the same price. Social benefits are freely given

Imagine this: a blood transfusion recipient can only receive blood if also a blood donor or a person is only eligible for benefits if also a taxpayer.

Emergency department waiting room

I always will remember my first rotation as the Emergency resident that the entrance to A&E had a vending machine and a “do not eat or drink” before seeing the Dr. It will always be a place of incongruity. Someone at deaths door in one section and in the next room someone arguing about the delay

 

[MEL_Traveller]

WHO advice updated 5 January 2022 says in the first Q and A that masks are useful to both protect healthy persons and reduce transmission by those with the virus. Masks should be part of a set of protective measures including social distancing and keeping hands clean.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Masks

 

[Must...Fly!]

WHO advice updated 5 January 2022 says in the first Q and A that masks are useful to both protect healthy persons and reduce transmission by those with the virus. Masks should be part of a set of protective measures including social distancing and keeping hands clean.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Masks

[Citation needed]

 

[cwphoto]

WHO advice updated 5 January 2022 says in the first Q and A that masks are useful to both protect healthy persons and reduce transmission by those with the virus. Masks should be part of a set of protective measures including social distancing and keeping hands clean.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Masks

Covid theatre - WHO is more politics than science. Their credibility is shot.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Covid theatre - WHO is more politics than science. Their credibility is shot.

sure, their credibility as an overall organisation may be questionable at times. But that doesn’t mean everything they say is wrong.

 

[Must...Fly!]

sure, their credibility as an overall organisation may be questionable at times. But that doesn’t mean everything they say is wrong.

Sure but don't cherry pick and shop things around you agree with then? There is no scientific credibility to the claim.

 

[cwphoto]

sure, their credibility as an overall organisation may be questionable at times. But that doesn’t mean everything they say is wrong.

How do we know which part is right?

 

[Mr H]

How do we know which part is right?

I think the onus is on you to say which parts are wrong.

 

[drron]

I think the onus is on you to say which parts are wrong.

No in medicine the onus is on the person making the changes to prove it is necessary.
The WHO statement comes with no references as to why they made that statement.

 

[cwphoto]

I think the onus is on you to say which parts are wrong.

That's not how science works.

 

[justinbrett]

Didn’t multiple Australian CHOs say masks were more important to “send a signal” than a measure in their own right?

 

[Must...Fly!]

Didn’t multiple Australian CHOs say masks were more important to “send a signal” than a measure in their own right?

What signal? Most people were locked up in their homes when COVD came a knocking...or otherwise out of work and on government welfare. I doubt they needed further examples of government intervention to tell them there was a pandemic.

 

[eastwest101]

What signal? Most people were locked up in their homes when COVD came a knocking...or otherwise out of work and on government welfare. I doubt they needed further examples of government intervention to tell them there was a pandemic.

Yeah - I was working and flying throughout the pandemic, the empty airports and aircraft with masked staff and pax, and empty streets, hotels and restaurants and lack of flights were a pretty big clue to me that something was different. Not to mention every time you saw a TV or heard the radio or saw the front page of a newspaper it was mentioned quite prominently.