Major changes to Velocity Frequent Flyer announced 17/10/24

[Flyingwombat]

I think you can fly VA marketed codeshare flights and they are treated the same as if VA was flying. I thought that was the whole point.

So you could fly VA marketed UA operated flights and it counts as if you flew VA anyway. Same with the QR wet lease flights - in fact, these are even closer - the flight is basically VA marketed and operated; it just so happens that the aircraft comes from QR, isn't repainted for VA and is operated with QR crew.

A couple of things I'm not entirely sure of, which are whether it is always (or much more) cheaper to purchase a given fare on a UA operated flight with a VA flight number or the base UA flight number (this tends to be a problem on many codeshare agreements). Also, I haven't tracked how much the international flight earn has changed, because SC earn for international flights (including partners) is different to domestic flights or short haul international operated by VA.

In my experience, the VA flight number adds to the costs significantly and it is a real nuisance with seating and checking in (in some cases - caveat that my experience is a few years old).

I'm going to earn my UA and SQ flights towards my mileage plus account now (no expiry of points!) and I am not flying EY anymore.

 

[jeppetto367]

I think you can fly VA marketed codeshare flights and they are treated the same as if VA was flying. I thought that was the whole point.

So you could fly VA marketed UA operated flights and it counts as if you flew VA anyway. Same with the QR wet lease flights - in fact, these are even closer - the flight is basically VA marketed and operated; it just so happens that the aircraft comes from QR, isn't repainted for VA and is operated with QR crew.

A couple of things I'm not entirely sure of, which are whether it is always (or much more) cheaper to purchase a given fare on a UA operated flight with a VA flight number or the base UA flight number (this tends to be a problem on many codeshare agreements). Also, I haven't tracked how much the international flight earn has changed, because SC earn for international flights (including partners) is different to domestic flights or short haul international operated by VA.

You can book UA tickets as VA tickets but I find they're generally around 20% more. Additionally the VA earning on a UA flight (on a VA ticket) is less than before, and the UA earning (on a UA ticket) has literally been halved.

 

[PERLHR]

Yeah I have just compared VA code share on SQ metal to Hanoi from Perth. Biz class results in 700 dollars difference flying with VA number against SQ!! How can that ever be justified or even allowed? Same flights.and from what I see, same conditions of ticket.

 

[ozstamps]

I think these changes are too much and will hurt them in the long term. Yup, QF are making some changes to QFF that are reducing its attractiveness - but Velocity have really downgraded their status earning in a huge way. For me, there is simply no incentive other than a much cheaper fare to pick VA at all. And the flow on, is that I don't care about Velocity points at all so won't bother trying to earn them on the ground.

Matt Graham's mass email today pointed to the majority of those posting here holding that view.

Virgin really did push the needle way too far in the wrong direction - at a time they should not have touched it.

100,000s of once loyal flyers really do not give a toss now, as the Q4 market share figures will tell us all I feel sure.

Virgin have not listened - their call. Folks are not paying to fly therm as much - their call.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Matt Graham's mass email today pointed to the majority of those posting here holding that view.

Virgin really did push the needle way too far in the wrong direction - at a time they should not have touched it.

100,000s of once loyal flyers really do not give a toss now, as the Q4 market share figures will tell us all I feel sure.

Virgin have not listened - their call. Folks are not paying to fly therm as much - their call.

Those ‘loyal’ flyers weren’t in fact ‘loyal’.

They were price-conscious, value-driven individuals.

There’s no loyalty when you fly simply based on price.

Perhaps VA offered some incentives for you to fly with them over, say Jetstar. And maybe VA has woken up that they’re not really competing with JQ.

So they don’t need the incentives.

But that’s nothing to do with loyalty.

 

[nutwood]

Those ‘loyal’ flyers weren’t in fact ‘loyal’.

They were price-conscious, value-driven individuals.

There’s no loyalty when you fly simply based on price.

Perhaps VA offered some incentives for you to fly with them over, say Jetstar. And maybe VA has woken up that they’re not really competing with JQ.

So they don’t need the incentives.

But that’s nothing to do with loyalty.

Opens up the question of defining loyalty. I would suggest that loyalty is continuing to fly with an airline when there are better alternatives. I'm not sure there's very much of that sort of loyalty out there? I would suspect the primary factor is another L word; laziness. You get accustomed to who you fly with. Changing is an effort and unless pushed, plenty of people just stay where they are. Making significant changes prods people to check out the grass on the other side of the fence and that's exactly what VA have done here. Increase prices and reduce returns is not a good combination.

 

[Trekky1]

Opens up the question of defining loyalty. I would suggest that loyalty is continuing to fly with an airline when there are better alternatives. I'm not sure there's very much of that sort of loyalty out there? I would suspect the primary factor is another L word; laziness. You get accustomed to who you fly with. Changing is an effort and unless pushed, plenty of people just stay where they are. Making significant changes prods people to check out the grass on the other side of the fence and that's exactly what VA have done here. Increase prices and reduce returns is not a good combination.

I don't know about you, but when I book a domestic flight, I compare both Qantas and Virgin and I go with price. I've just gotten to Silver with VA and now there is no chance that I'll get any higher now. I only fly 4 or 5 times a year.

 

[Flyingwombat]

I don't know about you, but when I book a domestic flight, I compare both Qantas and Virgin and I go with price. I've just gotten to Silver with VA and now there is no chance that I'll get any higher now. I only fly 4 or 5 times a year.

I price compare Qantas, Virgin and Jetstar but other factors come into play. I will pay more for Qantas or a Jetstar bundle as I assign value to QFF points. I also like new Qantas planes out of Hobart so will pay a little more. I no longer value Velocity points and I don’t care about their status credits as I’ve got no chance of getting off red and no chance of lifetime. That’s VA’s problem - in past I valued them more but now to win my booking they need to be cheaper than Qantas and Jetstar. These days they are often not. Time will tell - VA obviously think they don’t need as much engagement… I think they are wrong…

 

[davisd]

So how do you use code share?

I flew Singapore and Qatar under the SQ and QA numbers foolishly thinking these would map to the equivalent VA flight number.

Got my 690 status credits (ADL-SIN-BKK-DOH-DUB return - absolute killer with short stopovers) and still need a ton to get platinum renewed.

I did buy a cheap upgrade to business on Singapore to Bangkok and those status credits came through as though I’d bought a full priced business ticket.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Opens up the question of defining loyalty. I would suggest that loyalty is continuing to fly with an airline when there are better alternatives. I'm not sure there's very much of that sort of loyalty out there? I would suspect the primary factor is another L word; laziness. You get accustomed to who you fly with. Changing is an effort and unless pushed, plenty of people just stay where they are. Making significant changes prods people to check out the grass on the other side of the fence and that's exactly what VA have done here. Increase prices and reduce returns is not a good combination.

I think Qantas, for example, has a percentage of customers who are ‘loyal’. They fly because it is the national airline, they feel like it’s ‘home’ when they board, or see the red roo overseas, or they value the professionalism of the crews and engineers.

To those lax it doesn’t matter how much Qantas costs, that’s who they’re going to fly. (The reverse, I suppose, of those who refuse to fly certain airlines for no other reason than so,e sort of ‘feeling’.)

That’s not to say there aren’t a whole bunch of people who fly Qantas because they’re getting a really good deal,in return for their spend… gold and platinum status for example. But that’s not loyalty either.

But the difference between Qantas and Virgin is that QF needs to compete, offer incentives and rewards. And they have a really good FF program - in terms of status - to help them do that.

VA doesn’t really have anyone to compete against. JQ has the lower end of the market and QF the upper. Just as JQ doesn’t need incentives, neither does VA. VA’s FF program was never going to be enough, in and of itself, to take business away from QF.

 

[PERLHR]

But the difference between Qantas and Virgin is that QF needs to compete, offer incentives and rewards. And they have a really good FF program - in terms of status - to help them do that.

I struggle to see where QF actually truly competes in the true sense of international airline competition. They have it good. They have a LCC called Jetstar. They manipulate rather than compete. Personally I've never seen a truly competitive international flight cost with them. I'm not saying that they might not "match" but it's never true completion. Yes they have local (Australian) customers probably due to "business arrangements". Not much else.

VA probably has some degree of "real" competition ...they need to consider Jetstar, obviously what QF does domestically, and yes they probably have not done themselves much favour with the changes to the FF programme, but it could be also argued they don't place that much value in it ..when you consider the reduction in Economy X seating, the removal of differential between business class and economy cabins (the barrier and introduction of shower curtains), the lack of lounges even in some domestic airports which could cldo with a lounge (CNS comes to mind) and the non existent lounge for the few international flights they do. So I guess VA really is continuing to use the model of being a LCC.

 

[HS-TQE]

VA probably has some degree of "real" competition ...they need to consider Jetstar, obviously what QF does domestically, and yes they probably have not done themselves much favour with the changes to the FF programme, but it could be also argued they don't place that much value in it ..when you consider the reduction in Economy X seating, the removal of differential between business class and economy cabins (the barrier and introduction of shower curtains), the lack of lounges even in some domestic airports which could cldo with a lounge (CNS comes to mind) and the non existent lounge for the few international flights they do. So I guess VA really is continuing to use the model of being a LCC.

But even Bain has stated back when they took control that VA will no longer be competing "head on" with QF, and will be taking the "Value Carrier" approach ('Not' a full service carrier or 'Not' a Low Cost Carrier).

People that were expecting VA to compete 'head on' with QF were always going to be left disappointed. The way some carry on about "hundreds of thousands" or "millions of people" leaving VA on social media on the back of the FF changes affecting mainly international codeshare customers may 'potentially' end up being exposed as a 'very vocal minority' (VA's FY25 results did report that VFF income was slightly up in the first 6 months of the changes) as not all of the millions of FFs on both QF or VA are actually active on online forums or social media.

It will be interesting to see what the FY26 results for VFF will entail, if the revenue ends up increasing there, it could the signal for Bain to 'dismiss' the complaints as a 'loud and vocal minority' - which is their call.

 

[RooFlyer]

Opens up the question of defining loyalty. I would suggest that loyalty is continuing to fly with an airline when there are better alternatives. I'm not sure there's very much of that sort of loyalty out there? I would suspect the primary factor is another L word; laziness. You get accustomed to who you fly with. Changing is an effort and unless pushed, plenty of people just stay where they are. Making significant changes prods people to check out the grass on the other side of the fence and that's exactly what VA have done here. Increase prices and reduce returns is not a good combination.

Qantas has a huge number of QFF members who have been convinced that Qantas points are the be-all and end-all. Someday they'll fly free to Europe. I call them lemmings. No matter how bad the service, how bad the corporate behaviour (remember the credits/refund thing?), no matter how expensive the flight, no matter how bad the call centres are, they'll book Qantas and also direct much of their other spending again, chasing Qantas points.

I will really welcome it if Virgin pax now look to Qantas. If they want to pay more to fly occasionally, or to pay more and start at the bottom of the status ladder, good luck to 'em! The VA lounges will be less crowded. But some of the harshest critics here have said they will STILL fly VA. .

I fly from HBA up and down the east coast quite regularly. I always bring up both airlines' schedule and prices for the day, and I book the one that suits me - considering both price and timing. I'll often fly one airline up, and the other one back home. I honestly can't think why other people don't do that (unless flying on someone else's' expense).

I'm currently VA Plat and will drop down next year. Don't care. I'm QF Plat and would requalify with about 300 surplus SCs with existing bookings except I'll now redirect most of the earn to QR. I could probably get P1 if I tried hard but that would mean taking more Qantas flights rather than ones I think are better.

My mantra: Just fly what suits and don't be sucked in by costly 'loyalty' programs. No airline with will reciprocate your loyalty.

 

[AirAdl]

No discussion of the reports of targeted double or triple status credits offers? Double or Triple Status Credits on Eligible Virgin Australia Flights (Activation Required) @ Velocity Frequent Flyer

The targeting must be quite narrow. Mildly disappointed to learn of it first from ozbargain...

Same second time this year not targeted.

 

[nutwood]

Something I only just noticed. I was looking at flights LST - ADL and being slightly amazed at how much they've cranked the price up for business when I noticed they've also dropped the baggage allowance for business. Apparently it's now 1 piece @ 23 kg. This used to be 2 pieces @ 32 kg. They really have lost the plot. $880 for the direct flight in business and they're wanting to gouge for extra luggage?

 

[kerfuffle]

$880 for the direct flight in business and they're wanting to gouge for extra luggage?

Hopefully that's just some website error. Still has 2x 32kg here: https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/travel-info/baggage/checked-baggage/

 

[nutwood]

Hopefully that's just some website error. Still has 2x 32kg here: https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/travel-info/baggage/checked-baggage/

You could be right. That's what I see when I search for a flight on the Virgin website however when I log in on the B2B portal, the same flight shows as 2 x 32 kg.

 

[SYD]

Qantas has a huge number of QFF members who have been convinced that Qantas points are the be-all and end-all. Someday they'll fly free to Europe. I call them lemmings. No matter how bad the service, how bad the corporate behaviour (remember the credits/refund thing?), no matter how expensive the flight, no matter how bad the call centres are, they'll book Qantas and also direct much of their other spending again, chasing Qantas points.

I will really welcome it if Virgin pax now look to Qantas. If they want to pay more to fly occasionally, or to pay more and start at the bottom of the status ladder, good luck to 'em! The VA lounges will be less crowded. But some of the harshest critics here have said they will STILL fly VA. .

I fly from HBA up and down the east coast quite regularly. I always bring up both airlines' schedule and prices for the day, and I book the one that suits me - considering both price and timing. I'll often fly one airline up, and the other one back home. I honestly can't think why other people don't do that (unless flying on someone else's' expense).

I'm currently VA Plat and will drop down next year. Don't care. I'm QF Plat and would requalify with about 300 surplus SCs with existing bookings except I'll now redirect most of the earn to QR. I could probably get P1 if I tried hard but that would mean taking more Qantas flights rather than ones I think are better.

My mantra: Just fly what suits and don't be sucked in by costly 'loyalty' programs. No airline with will reciprocate your loyalty.

Except, it’s REALLY easy to earn QFF status without spending shed loads with them.

So long as you can get the four “squiggles” (eligible sectors), you don’t need to step foot on another QF aircraft. As PC, I get squiggles on reward flights, so even easier! Including when I use points to Asia and $ on QR to Europe etc.

I don’t mind flying QF when the price is right (often it is if you time it) but I’m not locked into booking a QF code to retain status - unlike the draconian VA changes.

I’ve already worked out that my last 3 or so year spend that retained QF WP was significantly less than VA require and without the 50% VA coded flights. And that wasn’t relying on significant DSCs (actually very few).

Absolutely no contest for me where I’m directing my attention.

 

[Flyingwombat]

Except, it’s REALLY easy to earn QFF status without spending shed loads with them.

So long as you can get the four “squiggles” (eligible sectors), you don’t need to step foot on another QF aircraft. As PC, I get squiggles on reward flights, so even easier! Including when I use points to Asia and $ on QR to Europe etc.

I don’t mind flying QF when the price is right (often it is if you time it) but I’m not locked into booking a QF code to retain status - unlike the draconian VA changes.

I’ve already worked out that my last 3 or so year spend that retained QF WP was significantly less than VA require and without the 50% VA coded flights. And that wasn’t relying on significant DSCs (actually very few).

Absolutely no contest for me where I’m directing my attention.

Totally agree. I book with my eyes open… and this is the key point you make. You can earn status with only a few flights on actual Qantas planes.

 

[MooTime]

Says a lot if you can get status with QF for less $$ than at VA.
That's actually mind boggling.
VA has to be less cos it offers less overall.
Love to see an in depth comparison on earning SC with both now.

They pumped everything even with TSC last year for the figures to look good / inflated for a sale, suppose QR looked beyond this.

This DSC/ TSC offer they even exclude the QR flights, how did that pass the QR board member/s?
Oh that's right they give you 20 bucks at DOH airport, woopti.