Loyalty and airlines - are we expecting ridiculous things??

[PJF]

I may support/ answer your post honestly, we are going to the Harbin Ice Festival in Jan/Feb 19. As per my usual routine I book MrsM and MissM on points, no issues both of them in J ADL-SYD-PVG-HRB, ticketed and sorted.

When I made made my revenue booking MEL-SYD-PVG-HRB (work means we have meet in SYD prior to going to PVG-HRB) I did not care about the price I just wanted to be on the same aircraft and booked QF129 and QF4041, an MU code share. 12 weeks later no ticket and after many calls to QF and a couple to SST I was advised that this option was not available (although it is still being marketed and sold as I write this post). In the end, I was informed I can only get a paid J fare to HRB if the final sector is PVG-HRB was in Y and on the MU Flight Number, although paying QF J price, this is apparently to do with the QF/MU contract.

As a positive QF did back date the fare price and in the end we are all on the same flights just but 1 of us is not in the same cabin on the final sector.

Is this disappointing, yes, but it is a 3 hour Y flight which MrsM and I will draw straws on (I already know who will win) is it worth getting worked up over, I think not. I will argue the toss with QF for points and SC sometime next year.

I have gone seriously OT and into a rant. Apologies

Just wondering would this not constitute false advertising and would be a Fair Trading or ACCC issue

 

[Matt_01]

Just wondering would this not constitute false advertising and would be a Fair Trading or ACCC issue

It could be I am not a lawyer and would not be bothered pursuing, although the QF+QF is being marketed for sale in J, if this is selection is chosen it will not ticket and your CC does not get charged. If the QF+MU is chosen a banner pops up stating you flight from PVG-HRB will be in Y. This is relatively new i.e. from a couple of weeks back. The price for either option is the same.

Maybe systems limitations and poor website management.

 

[PJF]

It could be I am not a lawyer and would not be bothered pursuing, although the QF+QF is being marketed for sale in J, if this is selection is chosen it will not ticket and your CC does not get charged. If the QF+MU is chosen a banner pops up stating you flight from PVG-HRB will be in Y. This is relatively new i.e. from a couple of weeks back. The price for either option is the same.

Maybe systems limitations and poor website management.

Likewise I am no lawyer either leave it to the more informed establishment

 

[Danielb56]

I do agree with you on some issues that sometimes expectations may seem a bit from some people, but for me the main issue is when they offer something and don't deliver..example another post when a person booked their chauffeur service and they did nit turn up. That's what urkes me and then it takes countless hours from their "customer Service" to get any kind of reply. Although I understand your sentiment that loyalty and customer service are 2 different things (especially when expectations are beyond the normal) , but I also disagree with it as loyalty from a frequent flyer customer should get some better customer service over people who are not...or one offs. You have to measure that statement on a situation to situation basis and not just a general statement of loyalty and customer service are 2 different things.

 

[juddles]

....... Although I understand your sentiment that loyalty and customer service are 2 different things (especially when expectations are beyond the normal) , but I also disagree with it as loyalty from a frequent flyer customer should get some better customer service over people who are not...or one offs. You have to measure that statement on a situation to situation basis and not just a general statement of loyalty and customer service are 2 different things.

Danielb, on the contrary. I certainly agree that customer service and loyalty are related things - and a "loyal" frequent flyer quite rightly gets even more aggrieved at poor customer service - I was trying to say that this thread was about the loyalty side of things - as there are so many other threads on customer service issues.

 

[Quickstatus]

When an airline provides a certain level of service, that service is then built into customer expectations.

Expectations then become unrealistic. We do expect much more that what the T&C says we will get

J/F toilets is the classic example. Where does it ever say toilets are travel class specific?. It’s just a cabin crew imposed restriction

We all expect airlines to be on time, but where does the contract of carriage say the airlines are contractually bound to be on time?

Loyalty schemes ?- nah just marketing






.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Expectations then become unrealistic. We do expect much more that what the T&C says we will get

J/F toilets is the classic example. Where does it ever say toilets are travel class specific?. It’s just a cabin crew imposed restriction

We all expect airlines to be on time, but where does the contract of carriage say the airlines are contractually bound to be on time?

.

The terms and conditions are only part of the overall 'contract' you have with the airline. All the other things they advertise - meals, IFE, beverages, seating... they are advertised as part of the product.

Separate cabins (and the toilets within) are not some crew imposed restriction. It is airline policy, and in some cases, governed by various regulations (for example in the USA passengers are required to remain in their ticketed cabins).

Flight times aren't guaranteed. But that shouldn't mean that airlines aren't held accountable for matters within their control. We have very weak laws in that regard here in Australia unfortunately.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I think it is the term 'loyalty program' that is the problem. It is really just a marketing program.

exactly right. The airlines PR people really push the loyalty angle and how important it is to them and how special you are and how much they are going to look after you. The reality is very different but people get sucked into the hype.

They don’t care about how loyal you are, only what value you are to them as a customer. It is also why they keep on making things simpler and fairer - anytime the rewards get out of whack with the economic return to them they adjust the program.

They are a business and it’s profits first and returns to shareholders and bonuses to staff - customers are just the cannon fodder

 

[dajop]

Is it me or is implied in most of this thread we are not talking about “loyalty and airlines” in general but “loyalty and a specific airline” that being Qantas?

I have two quite difference experiences in recent times with the two main airline “loyalty” programs I’m involved in, and find it difficult to generalise.

 

[juddles]

Is it me or is implied in most of this thread we are not talking about “loyalty and airlines” in general but “loyalty and a specific airline” that being Qantas?

I have two quite difference experiences in recent times with the two main airline “loyalty” programs I’m involved in, and find it difficult to generalise.

As OP I did not think of any specific airline, but here in AFF QF probably suffers the most rants from people claiming loyalty, due to the predominance of the QF frequent flyer (loyalty) program in Australia.

 

[DaveB]

Given how social media and DYKWIA's seem to go hand in hand, I find it laughable how anyone would feel aggrieved not getting treated beyond that prescribed in an airline's terms and conditions. If you are unhappy, simply go elsewhere.
The problem occurs with those feeling handcuffed with status typically built on multiple Y flights. Good chance they provide little net value to the airline as knowing their entitlements, they typically maximise their lounge and other benefits.
All airlines to some degree have the problem of lounge overcrowding and seem unwilling to wind back their various marketing/sales campaigns (eg credit cardholder access, double status credits, status matches and rogue partner schemes) making lounge access accessible to the savvy passenger regardless of cabin ticket.
I haven't flown QF through Singapore for years given the overnight flight and how busy the then relatively new lounge. I also hadn't experienced SQ's T3 Business lounge for some time and was amazed last Sunday how overcrowded it was even at midnight coming home with friends. We were visiting another couple based in Singapore who advised me to expect the lounge overcrowding. Knowing he regularly flew SQ J on business and having never had status beyond QF Silver, I enquired how his SQ perks were. Being a Solitaire member, (>S$25K ticket sales in 1st year) he advised SQ provided a lot of good perks for his loyalty (80kg luggage very handy as an expat) and was happy with the fact that whilst he was always able to access the SilverKris First Class Lounge to avoid the overcrowded, basic Gold (for Star Alliance members) and SilverKris Business lounges, he rightfully accepted being unable to access the Private Room restricted to F/R ticketed passengers.

 

[RooFlyer]

@juddles I've just shown my 'loyalty' to Qantas by re-qualifying for WP .. the more difficult way, having slipped to SG last year, so needing 1400 SCs this year (I did a RTW where I took QF flights as much as the itinerary allowed). I now have abt 29,500 lifetime SCs with the airline, abt 1,600 a year on average, every year for 18 years, since I joined the QFF program, after Ansett's collapse.

On my first call to the WP contact centre since regaining WP, chasing up some missing SCs, the agent was fobbing me off with undoubtedly wrong information, so I asked the call to be escalated; all very polite .... The call then ended when she said "I've told you twice the answer to your question, I'm now terminating the call." And she hung up on me.

Do you think I'm expecting a ridiculous thing, as a WP, not to be hung up on? To expect management to train their WP phone agents properly? When I called back, the next agent not only understood the issue, but got the missing SCs credited there and then. Simples.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you entirely in this thread. Loyalty does not mean exclusivity, for instance. Qantas set the rules and metrics in their 'loyalty' program and they do not require exclusivity. You do so many flights a year with them (four minimum), earn so many SCs with them/other OW airlines and you qualify for various loyalty tiers, in their eyes and get 'loyalty' bonuses. OK, so I do all that, but then Qantas, for instance, does NOT deliver what they promise - such as priority baggage, priority boarding etc etc; SCs crediting for flights taken etc. So they clearly regard the 'loyalty' thing as being flexible and that they don't have to obey their own rules, and I'm required to be 'understanding' and to just accept it. Its a pity then that they don't allow the same 'flexibility' on my part and be a little understanding when I also do not comply 100% with the program rules.

 

[RooFlyer]

Given how social media and DYKWIA's seem to go hand in hand, I find it laughable how anyone would feel aggrieved not getting treated beyond that prescribed in an airline's terms and conditions. If you are unhappy, simply go elsewhere.

I'd be less aggrieved if Qantas just delivered on their own prescribed terms and conditions. See some of the post above.

 

[flyingfan]

And she hung up on me.

Did you complain? I don't think I'd let that one go.

 

[Stevo.1702]

Sunk Cost Fallacy. I've spent so much money on my airline I couldn't imagine giving it up or starting again. My emotional expectations are not met yet so I determine it must be their fault in order to justify the money I've spent.

I am a sucker for it.

 

[RooFlyer]

Did you complain? I don't think I'd let that one go.

My second call was to ask how to complain about the first. First reply was to send an email to the FF. Email address. I declined that, so was then told to call back Monday when a call can get escalated. I will. The complaint will not be about the first agent, but about the management, who allow agents to just hang up ( it's been reported a number of times here on AFF), and for not training them adequately ( the second agent fixed the issue with little fuss).

 

[juddles]

Rooflyer, that you got hung up on is unforgiveable. I totally agree.

But you are a true frequent flyer - your SC tally demonstrates that.

As for "exclusivity", my beef is not with people who fly a lot with various airlines, it is those whose reality of exclusivity is " The three or so times I have flown in the last decade were with Qantas, so I am such an important loyal customer".

(BTW I wish we could argue this out over beer - not the net! )

 

[RooFlyer]

No worries juddles, I know where you are coming from

 

[juddles]

No worries juddles, I know where you are coming from

I still can't believe they hung up on you. I would want blood! You must have been livid. In your case, the loyalty (call it spend or whatever) should be obvious to any peanut that hears the complaint - I would expect a very humble apology from QF over that one.

(at least the grumpy "old" staff I referred to in another thread actually kept speaking to me! ;P )

 

[RooFlyer]

I suspect that the O/s call centre people are allowed to hang up on callers as they may get the odd abusive reaction to their inabilities or QF 'rules'. Now, while I was insistant in the face of obviously wrong information, I was not rude or aggressive ( plenty of years tells me that goes nowhere).

This is a management issue, not a call centre one. But I'm not expecting any sort of apology from Qantas. I'll be lucky to get anything other than a generic response ( at first ).