Long Haul Under Siege

[MikedOut]

SMH have a piece in today's Buiness section Long-haul under siege

Opens with "The chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, has questioned the viability of its full-service international operations without a change of direction."

Is it just me or do others see the irony of QF selling itself as a premium airline but seeming to move towards a LCC model. I'm not sure I want to see JQi as the product being foisted upon us if for international travel on an "Australian" airline. + I have to say that I'm starting to lose a little interest in the QF model, but still can't (at this stage) drag myself away ....I guess that's what they are hoping for.

 

[Saab34]

Qantas International has been dead for years, people like Geoff Dixon are to blame, AJ left to pick up the pieces.

Everyone knows they should have purchased 20 777s years ago, which would have created a large sustainable International arm flying to twice as many cities with costs under control with these great aircraft. But they are left with a bunch of old 747's flying cough all frequencies to minimal destinations.

A380's a step forward, but still should have got those 777s

Come back in 10 years and airlines like Vaustralia will probaly become the nations largest International airline.

 

[straitman]

Qantas International has been dead for years, people like Geoff Dixon are to blame, AJ left to pick up the pieces.

Everyone knows they should have purchased 20 777s years ago, which would have created a large sustainable International arm flying to twice as many cities with costs under control with these great aircraft. But they are left with a bunch of old 747's flying cough all frequencies to minimal destinations.

A380's a step forward, but still should have got those 777s

Come back in 10 years and airlines like Vaustralia will probably become the nations largest International airline.

They could still buy B777s if they wanted but they won't :!:

 

[pauly7]

SMH have a piece in today's Buiness section Long-haul under siege

Opens with "The chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, has questioned the viability of its full-service international operations without a change of direction."
.

I guess Air NZ is an example of moving to a different LCC-esque user pays model. They really had no choice though it was that or perish and they aren't completely out of the woods yet either...

I'm sure a few eyes are on them to see how they go.

 

[straitman]

I guess Air NZ is an example of moving to a different LCC-esque user pays model. They really had no choice though it was that or perish and they aren't completely out of the woods yet either...

I'm sure a few eyes are on them to see how they go.

The cynic in me says that if it came to the crunch then the NZ gov't would bail them out again like they did after the Ansett debacle.

 

[simongr]

Qantas International has been dead for years, people like Geoff Dixon are to blame, AJ left to pick up the pieces.

Everyone knows they should have purchased 20 777s years ago, which would have created a large sustainable International arm flying to twice as many cities with costs under control with these great aircraft. But they are left with a bunch of old 747's flying cough all frequencies to minimal destinations.

A380's a step forward, but still should have got those 777s

Come back in 10 years and airlines like Vaustralia will probaly become the nations largest International airline.

Umm - I think I have flown on this dead airline more than a few times recently...

Wouldnt one of the problems with the fleet be the significant delays to two of the future aircraft (A380/787) that were planned to be significant changes to the fleet?

 

[oz_mark]

Qantas International has been dead for years, people like Geoff Dixon are to blame, AJ left to pick up the pieces.

Everyone knows they should have purchased 20 777s years ago, which would have created a large sustainable International arm flying to twice as many cities with costs under control with these great aircraft. But they are left with a bunch of old 747's flying cough all frequencies to minimal destinations.

I don't know this. Everyone keeps stating they should have bought 777's. Certain journalists get into some heightened sense of excitement at the thought of it, but I don't get it. They'd still have an out of date Qantas product in them.

I really don't think that the 777 would have made that much difference.

 

[Sethor]

I agree the 777's would have made a difference, but who knows what will change when the 787's start coming. The problem is QF's long haul fleet consists of 747's & A380's which are only good for hub to hub routes, I can see 787's coming from secondary hubs (PER/ADL/BNE) into SIN & continuing on to European destinations like CDG/AMS/MXP/FCO/MUC/BCN once they arrive. Or maybe QF really need to bite the bullet & purchase a 77L fleet (or push Boeing for the 777-300EX/777-200EX) and try to serve destinations non stop to eliminate the need of a hub which will give them a advantage over ME & SEA carriers.

 

[JohnK]

Change of direction?

Is it just me or do others see the irony of QF selling itself as a premium airline but seeming to move towards a LCC model. I'm not sure I want to see JQi as the product being foisted upon us if for international travel on an "Australian" airline. + I have to say that I'm starting to lose a little interest in the QF model, but still can't (at this stage) drag myself away ....I guess that's what they are hoping for.

I will certainly drag myself away (and on hot coals if needed) from QF if JQi is the only choice to fly the QF group.

All QF has cared about about for many years is LHR and LAX. Bad move.

Stop blaming your problems on overseas airlines and how they have flooded the market. Give people a choice and decent connections in Asia and you will soon find that you are taking market share away from the likes of SQ, TG, CX etc.

 

[anat0l]

Summary of the posts to this point: two people do not deserve to live - Geoff Dixon and (perhaps more importantly) Alan Joyce.


A rather silly article, all of it: AJ, journalistic ethics - the lot. All of it is pretty obvious or is hypocritical, i.e. Australian ethos of capitalist free market but wanting to complain about Middle Eastern and Asian carriers flooding the market with capacity and wanting government protection. Absolutely bl**dy ridiculous, to put it in the most polite manner (if I could say what I could say, it would probably have me banned off AFF).

Perhaps the only thing that deserves some merit is the claim that long haul needs a new direction, but particularly for QF anyway. What they are doing is not working extremely well so of course they should be considering something different and building a solid, resilient market share. A lot of that is a composite effort of more than just creating the right long haul connections etc., and frankly if this whole fact wasn't obvious to anyone in the QF management, then frankly they're not worth a single cent of what they're paid (I'll stop slightly short of saying that they are hardly worth the physical space which they occupy).

 

[jakeseven7]

I really don't think that the 777 would have made that much difference.

I agree, people keep on bleating on and on about it like it would have saved the world. Hardly.

Now if there had been a suitable alternative to the 787 that QF passed on - that could have made a difference.

 

[tuapekastar]

Summary of the posts to this point: two people do not deserve to live - Geoff Dixon and (perhaps more importantly) Alan Joyce.

A little OTT, even for you.

I think it's just Joyce waving the 'scare' stick, i.e. saying "Unions you need to come to the (our) party", and "Government, we want you to help us (more)".

Ultimately, I do not see QF international product changing significantly (that's already happened with the considerable reduction to numbers of F seats on 747/A380) regardless of whether unions and/or gov't respond at all to this sort of statement.

 

[anat0l]

A little OTT, even for you.

I don't think so - quite the opposite. And I never said this was my exclusive thought - I was merely summarising the posts before mine.

There's enough complaints from the collective here - not even thinking of the non-AFFers - over the reign of these two CEOs the could be compared to the two World Wars combined. I'm not someone who studied marketing or business but it still surprises me considerably how most of the forum is still with QF after all the "injustices" they have suffered.

Now we finally have it outed that one CEO caused the start of the downfall of QF International operations, and another which intends to further the two-airline model internationally with QF/JQ. Both of these points mutually agreed by many as being completely counterproductive to the good operation of the airline group (again, my summary, not my exclusive opinion).

So how can you not agree that my summary was accurate?

I really think that until people start to wake up and realise that their integrity as a human being is strongly coupled to their existence in the gene pool then they won't take their lives and responsibilities seriously.

I think it's just Joyce waving the 'scare' stick, i.e. saying "Unions you need to come to the (our) party", and "Government, we want you to help us (more)".

Both of which are cowardly tactics, especially the latter. I don't know whether these tactics are part of the Western culture of business (or learnt somewhere in an MBA) but they are both deplorable.

Ultimately, I do not see QF international product changing significantly (that's already happened with the considerable reduction to numbers of F seats on 747/A380) regardless of whether unions and/or gov't respond at all to this sort of statement.

Precisely. So this whole article was a waste of time.

 

[dk4]

I think it's just Joyce waving the 'scare' stick, i.e. saying "Unions you need to come to the (our) party", and "Government, we want you to help us (more)".

Perhaps he is also positioning for a takeover/merger, including lobbying for removal of key elements of the Qantas Sales Act 1992?

IMO Australia doesn't need to subsidise a Sydneycentric International Airline.

Melbourne Airport management seem to have demonstrated that "end of the line" locations, can deliver on the international transport needs of their local communities without having a hub airline base: And perhaps further, that true competition created by not having a "locally owned airline" megahub, is in the best interest of all their stakeholders?

 

[antycbr]

Perhaps he is also positioning for a takeover/merger, including lobbying for removal of key elements of the Qantas Sales Act 1992?

Isn't the growth of JQ/3K and positioning of VH registered but Singapore crewed and based aircraft a neat sidestep of the spirit of the Qantas Sales Act to have a primarily Australian airline? I wonder how much of the 787 fleet for flying to secondary destinations in Europe will be based in Singapore and crewed by Singapore based staff?

Perhaps in the future QF will consist of two large Domestic airlines (which make money) a rump QF international (A380 only) and all the rest given over to JQi?

 

[yohy?!]

Perhaps in the future QF will consist of two large Domestic airlines (which make money)

They'll have to work out their domestic woes for this first and decide what it's gonna be - a red tailed or orange tailed fleet

 

[pauly7]

They'll have to work out their domestic woes for this first

Domestic woes?
Dead airlines?

Gotta love the exaggerations on AFF

 

[anat0l]

Gotta love the exaggerations on AFF

Possibly better than the hyperbole in the "popular media".

 

[Sprucegoose]

Qantas International has been dead for years, people like Geoff Dixon are to blame, AJ left to pick up the pieces.

Everyone knows they should have purchased 20 777s years ago, which would have created a large sustainable International arm flying to twice as many cities with costs under control with these great aircraft. But they are left with a bunch of old 747's flying cough all frequencies to minimal destinations.

A380's a step forward, but still should have got those 777s

Come back in 10 years and airlines like Vaustralia will probaly become the nations largest International airline.

Let's look at facts. What are the operational efficiencies the 777 has over the 747 for an airline like Qantas with it's unique set of circumstances?

The airline industry has been to he'll and back.....I am sure it's not down to one or two decisions or people. The Board at the end of the day is responsible from a governance perspective.

Anyone?

 

[yohy?!]

More importantly when are JQ going to improve the pitch and seats on their A321s - ouch!