Lithium Powerbank Ignites in Qantas Lounge

[justinbrett]

The ‘strike anywhere’ matches contain ignition in/on the match itself. All that is required is friction.

Safety matches the ignition is on the outside of the box, not the match itself.

The former can self ignite, the latter cannot. You have to take a positive action.

I read ages ago something about the dangers of matchbooks in luggage… something about pressure and friction can cause them to heat, smoulder and eventually start of fire. Which is why they’re banned in the hold.

So basically you're saying we need Safety Powerbanks?

The thing is safety matches are just matches. Where do you even buy the other kind? I don't hear people calling for "safety matches". I understand why they are labelled as such but in everyday use they're just matches. If you want to refer to the other kind, then you need to specify. I'm not sure I recall ever lighting one in my entire adult life.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So basically you're saying we need Safety Powerbanks?

The thing is safety matches are just matches. Where do you even buy the other kind? I don't hear people calling for "safety matches". I understand why they are labelled as such but in everyday use they're just matches. If you want to refer to the other kind, then you need to specify. I'm not sure I recall ever lighting one in my entire adult life.

In America, of course! Still being made: Diamond® Strike Anywhere Kitchen Matches - Diamond Brands

Also available on line, with plenty of comments from people ‘so happy’ to have matches you can ‘strike anywhere’.

 

[justinbrett]

In America, of course! Still being made: Diamond® Strike Anywhere Kitchen Matches - Diamond Brands

Also available on line, with plenty of comments from people ‘so happy’ to have matches you can ‘strike anywhere’.

I didn’t suggest you couldn’t get them - but they are not the norm and have to seek them out.

Apart from some niche survivalist uses, I’m trying to work out what’s so difficult about striking a box? . Or just get a lighter.

 

[Townsend]

We saw these at Bunnings yesterday and we thought were worth a go. Not to large but with enough room for our power banks and batteries.

 

[RSD]

We saw these at Bunnings yesterday and we thought were worth a go. Not to large but with enough room for our power banks and batteries.

Many thanks! I just took a look and they also have a bigger one for those of us that have to travel with a bucket of batteries - Larger Bunnings battery bag

 

[RooFlyer]

Folks - re the matches. I brought it up to show you can ban some things in a class, not everything. And BTW - 'strike anywhere' matches can ignite accidentally; 'safety matches' require a positive action to ignite. That's the difference.

So - power banks. Restrict and control first. Would occur in various degrees on different airlines and in different jurisdictions. There will be non compliance, accidental (forgetfulness) or deliberate. As serious events occur, which I think inevitable, the restrictions will tighten and a complete ban may be brought in by some. If an airliner was brought down, the effort to ban would increase such as confiscation at security - or this might hopefully happen at an earlier stage.

No doubt the research into solid state batteries to be portable - now at car-size, I think - will continue.

 

[OZDUCK]

We received this from Oman Air this morning. Seems to be following the lead of some other airlines.

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​ ​ [td]​ ​ ​ Dear Valued Guest, Your safety is our top priority. To make your journey safer and smoother, Oman Air has updated its rules for carrying lithium batteries, power banks, smart bags, and e-cigarettes. Please keep in mind the following when you travel:​ Power Banks​ Must be carried in hand luggage only (not checked baggage). Do not use or charge power banks during the flight. Keep them under your seat or in the seat pocket, not in the overhead compartment. Damaged or unlabelled power banks are not allowed. Smart Bags​ Smart bags with non-removable batteries cannot be checked in. If the battery can be removed, please take it out before check-in and carry the removed battery in the cabin during the flight. Removed battery to be carried in the cabin during the flight and placed in the seat pocket or in the guest’s baggage under the seat. E-cigarettes and Vapes​ Only allowed in hand baggage or kept with you during the flight (not in checked baggage). Using or charging them on board is not permitted. Personal Electronic Devices (PEDs)​ Guests may charge personal electronic devices (such as phones or tablets) using aircraft charging ports. Devices must always remain under your supervision and in sight while charging. Loose batteries, power banks, e-cigarettes, and vapes must not be charged during the flight. Lithium Battery-Powered Vehicles & Personal Transportation Devices​ These devices are not permitted on board, whether in carry-on or checked baggage. Examples include: hoverboards, balance wheels, electric mini-scooters, mini-Segways, and similar devices.​

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​ ​ [td]​ ​ ​ [td]​ ​ Thank you for following these guidelines and helping us maintain the highest safety standards on every journey.​ ​

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​ [td] ​ Oman Air – Fly Confidently, Fly Safely.​

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[MEL_Traveller]

Got the same email.

Although the powerbank in the qantas lounge was in the passenger’s pocket… so not being charged, although may have been charging something else?

Not sure the ‘not charging in flight’ bit is going to be safe enough.

 

[Haplo]

I have been on 4 different airline in the last two weeks, China eastern, China air, Korean air and Singapore air. All of them allowed me to use power bank until before the safety video, then they asked me to disconnect my phone shortly after.

 

[RooFlyer]

Although the powerbank in the qantas lounge was in the passenger’s pocket… so not being charged, although may have been charging something else?

When my phone is low, I carry it charging from a power bank in a jacket pocket (on the ground )

 

[RooFlyer]

Not sure the ‘not charging in flight’ bit is going to be safe enough.

On my understanding, fires/explosions happen (very simply, for the 'experts' who will pile in ) as the ion exchange in the lithium salt liquid electrolyte is disrupted, say by (over) heating and physical damage +/- water ingress. This can cause hydrogen to be produced, and potentially explode and catch fire. Hence the appeal of non-liquid containing, solid state batteries.

So a non-operating battery should be very low risk, unless it is already physically damaged or faulty in manufacture and there is a 'slow burn'.

 

[RSD]

On my understanding, fires/explosions happen (very simply, for the 'experts' who will pile in ) as the ion exchange in the lithium salt liquid electrolyte is disrupted, say by (over) heating and physical damage +/- water ingress. This can cause hydrogen to be produced, and potentially explode and catch fire. Hence the appeal of non-liquid containing, solid state batteries.

So a non-operating battery should be very low risk, unless it is already physically damaged or faulty in manufacture and there is a 'slow burn'.

Not so sure - take a look at this video about an EV that had been sitting in the showroom for over a year and one night decided to... Faraday Futures EV fire

 

[RooFlyer]

Not so sure - take a look at this video about an EV that had been sitting in the showroom for over a year and one night decided to... Faraday Futures EV fire

Sure - but doesn't that qualify as my faulty manufacture and 'slow burn'?

 

[RSD]

Sure - but doesn't that qualify as my faulty manufacture and 'slow burn'?

The EV manufacturers generally use high quality batteries from CATL etc - so if an EV with presumably a high quality battery can catch fire after more than a year just sitting there - how do you know that the power bank of the guy sitting next to you on the flight isn't going to do the same? Electric scooters aside, it seems that every batch of high quality lithium batteries has a very small percentage of dodgy ones - it might only be 0.00001% - but eventually...

 

[RooFlyer]

how do you know that the power bank of the guy sitting next to you on the flight isn't going to do the same?

I don't - that's what I was getting at. Or it was sat on last flight, or dropped from a height on the concourse but apparently undamaged. Experience will tell how far we/they need to go to minimise the risk in-flight to an acceptable level.

 

[Quickstatus]

ion exchange in the lithium salt liquid electrolyte is disrupted,

A thermal runaway is typically caused by an internal short circuit due to lithium metal dendrites (fingers) traversing from anode to cathode. Once it breaks through the separator membrane and hits the cathode a short circuit occurs and very high current travels along these dendrites.

The internal short circuit dendrite growthcan be due to damage, poor manufacturing, poor charging poor charging regulation by the battery management systems.

So a non-operating battery should be very low risk

A non discharging or charging battery can be high risk especially when the state of charge is high, a high voltage exists across the cathode and anode which in a poorly manufactured battery can promote the growth of lithium metal dendrites and see above. That's why when lithium batteries are transported they are required to be typically less than 30% charge

My solution would be to require all standalone power banks to have minimal charge - maybe less than 30% or one bar in the battery indicator when boarding an aircraft and no batteries including built in batteries to have 100% charge at anytime