Lhr-sin-dps | Australian Frequent Flyer
Australian Frequent Flyer

Welcome to Australia's leading independent Frequent Flyer and Travel Resource since 1998!
Our site contains tons of information that will improve your travel experience.

Joining AFF is fast, simple & absolutely free - register now and take immediate advantage of these great BENEFITS.

Once registered, this box will disappear. And you will see fewer advertisements :)

Lhr-sin-dps

Status
Not open for further replies.

holdenvxman

Member
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
151
Hello
My flight to dps from LHR is connecting in SIN, there is only 1 and a half hours between conecting flights, what happens if the LHR to SIN is delayed? there is not another flight to DPS for a few days???
 

JohnK

AFF Supporter
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
41,216
Is the flight on the one ticket? Is it with QF or OneWorld?

The minimum connection time in SIN is 1 hour, I think and you have 1.5 hours, so I think if the LHR-SIN flight was delayed and you missed the SIN-DPS connection then they will try to get you there with another carrier ASAP.

If your flights are on separate tickets and different carriers/alliances then I think that only travel insurance would cover you if you missed connection.
 

holdenvxman

Member
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
151
Hi John

Thanks for that, im on a LONE4 ticket so hopefully they can get me there some how but i think the only option would be SIN Airlines so maybe the insurance would cover that
 

JohnK

AFF Supporter
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
41,216
holdenvxman said:
Thanks for that, im on a LONE4 ticket so hopefully they can get me there some how but i think the only option would be SIN Airlines so maybe the insurance would cover that
If LHR-SIN-DPS is all part of the LONE4 and you have met minimum connection time in SIN, which you have, and if the first flight arrives late then you should be covered by the airline as it was their fault the onward connection was missed. Where are the xONEx experts when you need them?
 

NM

Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
15,806
Flights
My Map
I have never seen a case of a disrupted passenger on a OneWorld Explorer being moved to a non-OneWorld airline to get to a destination. In fact when I was delayed on a DONE4 recently, the AAgent looking at the options to get me to my destination said their was Chinese airline option (not sure exactly which Chinese airline it was), but then said she could not do that on a OneWorld Explorer fare.

From the OneWorld Explorer fare rules:
Code:
57N TICKET INSTRUCTIONS                                                        
 58N .                                                                          
 59N . 1. TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON THE TICKET STOCK OF                         
 60N .    AA/AY/BA/CX/EI/IB/LA/LP/QF.                                           
 61N . 2. FOP BOX MUST SHOW:  NON-REF                                           
 62N . 3. ENDORSEMENT BOX OF THE ORIGINAL AND  ALL                              
 63N .    REISSUED TICKETS MUST SHOW:                                           
 64N .    VALID ONLY ON AA/AY/BA/CX/EI/IB/LA/QF/LP
So the ticket is not valid for travel on ant non-OneWorld airlines and they are no likely to carry you on SQ.

I expect that if you do miss the connection, you will be carried on the next OneWorld flight to that destination that has space available. If that means spending a day or two in Singapore then that is what is likely to happen.
 

Mal

AFF Supporter
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Messages
12,267
Flights
My Map
Fairly simple.

One ticket , minimum connection times met = not really your issue if your plane is late.

Seperate tickets = Airlines may not assist you if your plane is late.


Travel insurance always helps though - gives you more flexibility if your plane is late and you're not happy with the airline's assistance with getting you where you have to be.
 

NM

Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
15,806
Flights
My Map
Mal said:
Fairly simple.

One ticket , minimum connection times met = not really your issue if your plane is late.

Seperate tickets = Airlines may not assist you if your plane is late.


Travel insurance always helps though - gives you more flexibility if your plane is late and you're not happy with the airline's assistance with getting you where you have to be.
Might not be your fault or "issue", but you can still be stuck at the connecting point if there is not another flight for 2 days.
 

JohnK

AFF Supporter
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
41,216
NM said:
Might not be your fault or "issue", but you can still be stuck at the connecting point if there is not another flight for 2 days.
Sounds a bit more restrictive than a point to point fare where they can offload you to a non-OneWorld carrier.

Surely if this situation arose and you had to sit around for 2 days waiting for flight, further connections may be missed also, then travel insurance would be able to cover a flight with non-OneWorld carrier to get you to destination ASAP.
 

alect

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
351
NM said:
I have never seen a case of a disrupted passenger on a OneWorld Explorer being moved to a non-OneWorld airline to get to a destination. In fact when I was delayed on a DONE4 recently, the AAgent looking at the options to get me to my destination said their was Chinese airline option (not sure exactly which Chinese airline it was), but then said she could not do that on a OneWorld Explorer fare.

From the OneWorld Explorer fare rules:
Code:
57N TICKET INSTRUCTIONS                                                        
 58N .                                                                          
 59N . 1. TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON THE TICKET STOCK OF                         
 60N .    AA/AY/BA/CX/EI/IB/LA/LP/QF.                                           
 61N . 2. FOP BOX MUST SHOW:  NON-REF                                           
 62N . 3. ENDORSEMENT BOX OF THE ORIGINAL AND  ALL                              
 63N .    REISSUED TICKETS MUST SHOW:                                           
 64N .    VALID ONLY ON AA/AY/BA/CX/EI/IB/LA/QF/LP
So the ticket is not valid for travel on ant non-OneWorld airlines and they are no likely to carry you on SQ.

I expect that if you do miss the connection, you will be carried on the next OneWorld flight to that destination that has space available. If that means spending a day or two in Singapore then that is what is likely to happen.
NM,

My case may be your first - albeit a CX case so not indicative of the rest of OW. IN June this year we were on a DONE4, in DPS, and booked and ticketed on CX to finish it off DPS-HKG-BKK. When we arrived at DPS for check in, the CX agent informed us that the incoming plane was late and would depart late and we most likely would miss our connection to BKK in HKG and that was the last flight. She also informed us that they had already accommodate us on the direct DPS-BKK TG flight, leaving an hour later than CX was scheduled, but getting into BKK 4 hrs earlier than we were originally booked. Between her and the TG agent they really looked after us, including check-in, helping with our bags and walking us through passport control, and up to the lounge. She also got our AAdv numbers and said the CX miles originally booked would be credited (one segment alreayd posted, awaiting for the other). Alas TG J was not a shade on CX J but we got to BKK earlier! SO we were fine. Now I am also trying to get credit for the TG segment on LH M&M :).

So it does happen. Now I have no idea whether it's DPS specific, CX specific, or another reason.
 

Kiwi Flyer

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
5,453
JohnK said:
Sounds a bit more restrictive than a point to point fare where they can offload you to a non-OneWorld carrier.

Surely if this situation arose and you had to sit around for 2 days waiting for flight, further connections may be missed also, then travel insurance would be able to cover a flight with non-OneWorld carrier to get you to destination ASAP.
I think you're missing the point. Any cases of missed connection it is up to the airline as to how they get you to your destination. In EU, US and other places there is a general requirement where it is a valid single ticket to get you there in a reasonable time. But reasonable is wide open to interpretation. Other than full fare flexible tickets reasonable most cases will default to next available flight on the same airline, or on the same alliance. However, airlines can and do go further than this (or any printed rules like the xONEx referred to above) on occassion.

Eg if large numbers of pax misconnect there may not be room on the next flight(s) with same airline/alliance. In this situation they are far more likely to switch to another airline (if one exists for a suitable routing).

Eg if pax has more longhaul flights on the same ticket with the same airline that are in jeopardy of flow on misconnections then the airline is more likely to be flexible.

Eg if pax has status with the same airline they are more likely to be flexible. I missed a flight on a RTW due to cancellation and not informing me of this. LH was within its rights to insist I go on the next flight later the same day, which would then be a turnaround for me. However since I have status with them they looked at other routing options both on their own metal and other airlines. I ended up being put on AF via Paris (twice as far as my original flight) so that I could at least salvage my meeting.

All these examples could apply equally to point to point ticket or to round the world ticket. There is nothing in a regular ticket that says the airline has to put you on another airline if you misconnect, even if the alternative means you have to wait a few days (and possibly travel in a lower class than you'd booked). That is a risk that all travellers bear.
 

JohnK

AFF Supporter
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
41,216
Kiwi Flyer said:
That is a risk that all travellers bear.
Thanks for pointing all those things out. I have never read the fine print so wouldn't know what rules will be applied by the airline. To me it does not sound logical, but then rules are not meant to be logical. They are there to protect the airline not the passenger. I guess this is where travel insurance comes in to the picture.

Just interested to know what would happen if you missed connection due to airlines fault, assuming you met MCT, and was actually left stranded for 1-2 days waiting for next flight. You have pre-paid accommodation, that may be forfeited, and you may have onward connections at destination with another carrier/alliance.

From my own personal experience with TWA arriving JFK 3 hours late, in BKK with Finnair and in SYD with QF I have been taken care of better than expected.
 

NM

Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
15,806
Flights
My Map
alect said:
NM,

My case may be your first - albeit a CX case so not indicative of the rest of OW. IN June this year we were on a DONE4, in DPS, and booked and ticketed on CX to finish it off DPS-HKG-BKK. When we arrived at DPS for check in, the CX agent informed us that the incoming plane was late and would depart late and we most likely would miss our connection to BKK in HKG and that was the last flight. She also informed us that they had already accommodate us on the direct DPS-BKK TG flight, leaving an hour later than CX was scheduled, but getting into BKK 4 hrs earlier than we were originally booked. Between her and the TG agent they really looked after us, including check-in, helping with our bags and walking us through passport control, and up to the lounge. She also got our AAdv numbers and said the CX miles originally booked would be credited (one segment alreayd posted, awaiting for the other). Alas TG J was not a shade on CX J but we got to BKK earlier! SO we were fine. Now I am also trying to get credit for the TG segment on LH M&M :).

So it does happen. Now I have no idea whether it's DPS specific, CX specific, or another reason.
Alect, great to hear that CX looked after you. Its great that they can and did make this change for you. However, I don't believe they are required to do so.

I would expect OneWorld status and class of travel will have some influence as to how much the airlines will go out of their way to assist. They may also weigh up the costs of transferring you to another airline vs the need to accommodate and feed you at the misconnection point.

In your case it was your departing CX flight that would have caused the misconnection to another CX flight. It may be a little different is the misconnect was caused by another airline - say a delayed BA flight LHR-SIN missing a connection to the 3/week QF flight SIN-DPS.

I am not sure what QF's obligation would be under those conditions. It would be good to think they would get the passengers to DPS by whatever means was available. But there is no guarantee that will happen.
 

Kiwi Flyer

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
5,453
Further thought. In some countries, the US comes to mind, the airlines are required to have a documented policy of what they'll do for pax in irregular ops situations. IIRC in US it is rule 120 for domestic flights and rule 240 for international.

I am not aware of Australia or NZ having similar requirement, although internally they do have such policies (so agents/staff don't have to make up stuff on the spot). For instance, earlier this year my flight PER-AKL was delayed significantly. No other options on NZ or *A. Due to my status they looked into putting me on QF (in same cabin) but did not since the arrival time at AKL wasn't significantly earlier than it would be on the delayed flight - it didn't meet their policy. I can't recall the exact details, but my delayed flight needed to have an ETA a couple hours later to allow transfer to QF.
 

Alan in CBR

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Messages
308
NM said:
I have never seen a case of a disrupted passenger on a OneWorld Explorer being moved to a non-OneWorld airline to get to a destination.
alect said:
NM,
My case may be your first
Allow me to be your second. :)
Last month I was on a DONE4 flying LHR-LAX-IAD, with both flights on AA. (Strange routing, but I used an eVIP to upgrade LHR-LAX to First Class, and also I needed the Q-points!)

The LHR-LAX flight was over 2 hours late, and I missed the AA connection (red-eye, and last AA flight which could get me there). AA offered me a red-eye on UA, or an AA flight the next day with accommodation at the Crowne Plaza LAX. I took the latter option, but they were willing to move me over to UA.

I suspect my AA status may have been a factor, and being in First Class may also have had something to do with it. I doubt a no-status on a LONE4 would have been given the same treatment.
 

serfty

Moderator
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
40,550
Flights
My Map
OT: Common routing

Alan in CBR said:
... Last month I was on a DONE4 flying LHR-LAX-IAD, with both flights on AA. (Strange routing, but I used an eVIP to upgrade LHR-LAX to First Class, and also I needed the Q-points!) ...
Hardly strange at all :p ... quite normal for many posters on this (and similar) forums. ;)
 

Kiwi Flyer

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
5,453
Re: OT: Common routing

serfty said:
Hardly strange at all :p ... quite normal for many posters on this (and similar) forums. ;)
Indeed. My best odd routing was New York to San Francisco. I went the long way around - via SIN, BKK, SIN again, AKL and LAX.
 

NM

Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
15,806
Flights
My Map
Alan in CBR said:
Allow me to be your second. :)

AA offered me a red-eye on UA, or an AA flight the next day with accommodation at the Crowne Plaza LAX. I took the latter option, but they were willing to move me over to UA.

I suspect my AA status may have been a factor, and being in First Class may also have had something to do with it. I doubt a no-status on a LONE4 would have been given the same treatment.
Thanks for sharing this. So we see that it certainly can be done if the airline handling the disruption is willing to play the game. But as you say, this was a DONE4 with inbound and missed connection in F for a top-tier AA FF member.

I wonder if Qantas would be so willing to pay for an economy passenger to travel on SQ if their inbound BA flight caused the missed connection? It would be nice if they did.
 

guy

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
12
come on guys, the airlines are in the business of moving people, just beacuse of the alliances doesnt mean they wont help displace passenger.s

I was on a LAN D class ticket syd/akl/syd, and never flew LAN, delay over to akl meant QF stepped in and back F in Air NZ and they even gave me the QG points and status.
 

NM

Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
15,806
Flights
My Map
guy said:
come on guys, the airlines are in the business of moving people, just beacuse of the alliances doesnt mean they wont help displace passenger.s

I was on a LAN D class ticket syd/akl/syd, and never flew LAN, delay over to akl meant QF stepped in and back F in Air NZ and they even gave me the QG points and status.
While many times the airlines will assist displaced passengers, especially those travelling in business or first class, when travelling on a restricted ticket there is no guarantee they will move the passenger onto an airline that for which that ticket is not valid.

In your example, LAN will have endorsed the ticket to QF and NZ (I was not aware NZ had F class trans-Tasman) and hence those airlines collect the fare revenue via the IATA clearing house.

On a LONE4 fare, the ticket is only valid for carriage on OneWorld airlines. There would be no problem at all with the displaced passenger being moved to any OneWorld carrier to get them to their destination. That carrier would obtain the revenue via the usual fare distribution through the clearing house. However, a non-OneWorld airline is not going to accept the LONE4 ticket coupon since they have no way of getting the revenue since the coupon is clearly marked as only valid for carriage on OneWorld airlines. So the OneWorld airline responsible this sector carriage has a choice to either delay the passenger until the next available OneWorld flight (may be several days in the example given) or to agree to pay the carrying airline and effectively purchasing a ticket for the passenger.

Given the small amount of revenue that QF would be earning on a LONE4 ticket for SIN-DPS flight (its considered an intra-continental flight, and the lion's share of the fare revenue goes to the inter-continental services), they may be reluctant to lose money by paying another airline to carry their passenger.

As an example, a LLONE4 fare costs around A$3000. In a typical ATW itinerary, the SIN-DPS flight of 1037 miles may be around 2.5% of the flown mileage and if the fare is apportioned to the carrying airlines by mileage, that would mean a revenue of around $75 for that sector. Not a great incentive for the ticketed airline to go out of their way to assist unless the passenger was a high status FF member. Note the cheapest published SQ fare on that route is A$216 (YOWA) though it can be expected QF may be required to be less than published fares and will depend on availability.

So with the OP being on a LONE4 fare, the segment in question being a very low revenue proportion of the fare, the ticket specifically excluding the ability to endorse to non-OneWorld carriers, and the route only being operated 3 times a week by any OneWorld airline, I would not be surprised if a misconnect means some unscheduled sightseeing in SIN.

I am not saying QF would not pay to move the passenger over to SQ or GA for this sector. I am say that such assistance is not a right nor guaranteed and that this specific example includes few options due to the lack of OneWorld options available.

The situation is quite a bit different from a D fare SYD-AKL-SYD where the airline can endorse the ticket and hence fare revenue to another airline with little or no cost implication to themselves.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

AFF on Air Podcast

  • The Qantas Oneworld Award – AIR015
    Sat, 13 Jul 2019 02:07:50 AEST
      Learn how to fly around the world using your Qantas Frequent Flyer points as Matt chats to James Green, an award travel consultant at Frequent Flyer Solutions. This episode ...
  • Qantas Frequent Flyer Changes – AIR014
    Sat, 29 Jun 2019 00:40:35 AEST
      Last week, Qantas announced a major shake-up to its Qantas Frequent Flyer program. In this episode, former Head of Loyalty at Malaysia Airlines, Mark Ross-Smith, joins Matt ...
  • jb747’s Stellar Career with Qantas – AIR013
    Sat, 15 Jun 2019 03:00:41 AEST
      In this special edition of the podcast, Matt chats to John Bartels (a.k.a. jb747) about his flying career with Qantas, the A380, the QF30 incident, flight training, retirem ...
  • Cheap Virgin Australia Business Class – AIR012
    Sat, 01 Jun 2019 03:05:28 AEST
      Find out how to get cut-price Virgin Australia Business Class tickets by buying and redeeming Etihad Guest miles! This episode also includes some listener Q&A and an interv ...
  • Star Alliance Status – AIR011
    Sat, 18 May 2019 09:39:41 AEST
      Find out how to easily earn Star Alliance Gold status with several different frequent flyer programs! This episode also includes an interview with John Blom, Australia’s ...

Community Statistics

Threads
81,957
Messages
1,895,283
Members
49,809
Latest member
Steve Trainor
Top