Let us know your most outrageous thoughts on any topic about flying

[Forg]

I grew up in a housing commission estate. My parents were poor, but absolutely the most loving and responsible disciplinarians. They had basic education themselves and raised four kids on the smell of money. But I can say this: Not ONCE, did they ever behave like those mentioned above.

Being wealthy doesn't always guarantee decorum. But being poor doesn't entitle you to exercise a lack of it.

To be fair, your parents were living to totally different societal norms. My probably-not-that-well-experienced observation of Chinese culture & behaviour is that it’s normal & expected to behave in ways that would be considered inconsiderate & ignorant & rude & selfish here.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

^ Once gained a tiny tweak of schadenfreudey delight when a gaggle of Chinese tourists (an assumption I've made because in my admittedly-limited experience other languages don't sound the same as Mandarin) who'd booked the exit row on a JQ flight (MEL-HBA) weren't allowed to board the 'plane due to not speaking a word of English & hence being unable to follow any safety instructions - being able to follow the safety instructions being one of the most important criteria for being allowed to sit in the exit row.
The flight was full & I didn't see them board at all, so dunno what happened with them in the end.

If this was true, the pax would have been involuntarily denied boarding. While they aren't permitted to sit in exit rows during critical phases of flight - taxi, take-off and landing - they are permitted to sit there during other times. It's as simple as getting them to swap with other passengers for those parts of the flight.

There is no basis to completely refuse those passengers boarding at all.

 

[Max Samuels]

I grew up in a housing commission estate. My parents were poor, but absolutely the most loving and responsible disciplinarians. They had basic education themselves and raised four kids on the smell of money. But I can say this: Not ONCE, did they ever behave like those mentioned above.

Being wealthy doesn't always guarantee decorum. But being poor doesn't entitle you to exercise a lack of it.

I said humble farmers without electricity.... I didn't say "poor", as "poor" is relative..... also housing commission estates have electricity.... plus it is a bad comparison because pretty much everyone in Australia has at least the concept of what air travel is - seen a plane, know someone that has been on one.... probably been on one at least once.

The Chinese "tourist" it seems have their own unique brand of poor social behaviour.... so much so that even my bleeding-heart lefty liberal friends in Hollywood who pretend to be all about open borders are beginning to crack...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The Chinese "tourist" it seems have their own unique brand of poor social behaviour....

And Aussies have their own unique brand of poor social behaviour. Try Kuta on a weekend.

You seem to be arguing the Chinese 'don't know any better'. Well Aussies do know better.

Which one is worse?

 

[clipped_wings]

a couple of old ladies came up beside me............open the overhead locker to put their stuff in - find it full - so take my stuff out, drop it on the floor, and then put theirs in!!!!

I said humble farmers without electricity.... I didn't say "poor", as "poor" is relative..... also housing commission estates have electricity.... plus it is a bad comparison because pretty much everyone in Australia has at least the concept of what air travel is - seen a plane, know someone that has been on one.... probably been on one at least once.

Well let's assume my parents were humble as well.

I am also quite aware of the ancient infrastructure of the provincial Chinese farmer in 1990. And I still don't see any excuse. I have however, seen young Australian kids in the country who have never seen rain, let alone a airplane. That kind of isolation and exclusion is not unique to third worlds.
The point I am making, is that as humans living in the current century - we are generally hard wired to a fundamental and most common acceptable form of social behaviour. "We're not a pack of animals" as Jim Jeffereys would say. And unless you grew up on North Sentinel Island - I believe even the humble Chinese farmer - on his first flight in the big silver bird, would not throw someone's bag out of an overhead, only to put his in.

 

[Forg]

^ Except that the acceptable norm in China is cut-throat & pushing-in & getting away with absolutely anything you can get away with short of violence. It’s just centuries’ worth of accepted behaviour. Even if they know how “westerners” behave, they think we’re stupid pushovers ripe for exploiting & we shouldn’t be so stupid if we didn’t want to be walked all over ...

 

[dajop]

^ Except that the acceptable norm in China is cut-throat & pushing-in & getting away with absolutely anything you can get away with short of violence. It’s just centuries’ worth of accepted behaviour. Even if they know how “westerners” behave, they think we’re stupid pushovers ripe for exploiting & we shouldn’t be so stupid if we didn’t want to be walked all over ...

Aah but it does depend on where you are from. I had a colleague from Tianjin (who lived and worked in Beijing during the week) who insisted it was the heathen southerners that are the problem. He insisted those in the north are much more civilised I've also heard a variation that goes along the lines that the further you get from Beijing the more the behaviour degenerates

Once you've experienced it, you can actually see why (in additional to political control) that China is going ahead with the Orwellian social credit system in attempt to improve the behaviour of its citizenry.

 

[CaptJCool]

I said humble farmers without electricity.... I didn't say "poor", as "poor" is relative..... also housing commission estates have electricity....
...

Exclusive



I wondered if there’s correlation between being poor and electricity disconnections...

https://www.aer.gov.au/system/files/Annual%20Report%20on%20Compliance%20and%20Performance%20of%20the%20Retail%20Energy%20Market%202017-18_0.pdf

 

[Max Samuels]

Exclusive

View attachment 185846

I wondered if there’s correlation between being poor and electricity disconnections...
View attachment 185847

https://www.aer.gov.au/system/files/Annual%20Report%20on%20Compliance%20and%20Performance%20of%20the%20Retail%20Energy%20Market%202017-18_0.pdf

I think something like 50% of China, until maybe recently, didn't even have the option to have electricity....
So quite a different scenario to having it disconnected for non-payment

 

[Max Samuels]

I believe even the humble Chinese farmer - on his first flight in the big silver bird, would not throw someone's bag out of an overhead, only to put his in.

Well sounds like you've not read the first-hand accounts of people here telling you that is exactly what happens!!!!

The thing about stereotypes, is that there is always a basis of truth to an extent.

And it's not juts with China - it happens everywhere. To me it always seems like the liberal big city elite like to view the world through some special lens, so as they sip their Chardonnay and enjoy their freshly shucked pacific oysters, they can feel better about themselves. It's a very Sydney/Melbourne problem to have. Some years ago, I worked in Ayers Rock & Alice Springs for an extended period of time. I was absolutely appalled at the living conditions of the Aboriginals. Looked like a 3rd world country. Shocking. Very high levels of crime. Alice Springs, a small country town, is not safe to walk at night. Yet, when I would come home and report what I saw with my own eyes, my Chardonnay friends didn't want to know. In their mind, everyone in the desert was making beautiful artwork and doing traditional rain dances. The truth was something they couldn't handle (just have some more Chardonnay)

But back to China..... I have not had the pleasure of being to China in almost 10 years (thank God) - but I used to spend a lot of time there for work. Months at a time. Everywhere from Shnaghai and Beijing to Chengdu and Shenzen and half a dozen places I cannot even remember the names of. The list of my least favourite places in the world are all in China (except Bombay which in my opinion is the worst) - you wanna talk about terrible airline lounges??? Try the ones in Bombay!

I have, however, got to witness the slow decline of Hong Kong over the past 15 years or so. From about 2003 - 2010 I went Hong Kong at least monthly. Then after that, at least annually. I can say for an absolute fact that the mass influx of mainland Chinese into that city has not been a good thing. Expats are leaving in droves. But don't take my world for it - just turn on your TV!

Perhaps I do live in a bubble though - I would be really keen to hear if anybody thinks that Hong Kong is better off since the invasion of China?

 

[Max Samuels]

I have however, seen young Australian kids in the country who have never seen rain, let alone a airplane. That kind of isolation and exclusion is not unique to third worlds.

Young Australian kids in the country that haven't seen a plane? Hard to believe

 

[sjk]

I can say for an absolute fact that the mass influx of mainland Chinese into that city has not been a good thing

No, you can’t.

 

[Max Samuels]

And Aussies have their own unique brand of poor social behaviour. Try Kuta on a weekend.

You seem to be arguing the Chinese 'don't know any better'. Well Aussies do know better.

Which one is worse?

Oh yeah the Kuta bogans are terrible for sure - you won't get an argument from anyone on here.
But the discussion re China seems to be bigger than one particular destination. And both things can be true at once.

I don't think anyone has said "Aussies in Kuta are amazing and Chinese are terrible".

 

[Max Samuels]

No, you can’t.

Please enlighten us.

 

[clipped_wings]

@Max Samuels, please take a breath and exhale I was actually agreeing with you in my first post about the shocking behaviour of some people on planes. However, we seem to have digressed from the discussion on point.

Let's all remember that we are friends here to chat, not argue. I would like to think you are a kind and decent person who has a legitimate concern for some social issues that interest you. And I support you.

But, don't ever assume I am one of those chardy-sipping snobs mate. You couldn't be further from the truth. People need to walk a mile in my shoes before they infer what demographic I may or may not represent. They might be surprised.

Kind regards

Clipped_Wings

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Oh yeah the Kuta bogans are terrible for sure - you won't get an argument from anyone on here.
But the discussion re China seems to be bigger than one particular destination. And both things can be true at once.

I don't think anyone has said "Aussies in Kuta are amazing and Chinese are terrible".

My reference to Kuta was just an example. Aussies behaving badly is also bigger than one particular destination. I don’t think you can point the finger at any one country more than another.

I lived in China for many years. My experience couldn’t be more different from yours, it seems.

 

[JohnK]

Ha! ok.
Well I personally wouldn't use 'police like' to describe VA hosties.
More like 'school teachery' sometimes due to their more leisure flyers.

Yes school teachers could be a better description.

 

[Max Samuels]

I think some people need to remember that this post is called "let-us-know-your-most-outrageous-thoughts-on-any-topic-about-flying".... it really isn't a place for the PC police to be lurking

 

[Max Samuels]

I flew JQ the other and it wasn't completely terrible...... in fact, I kind of liked it ?!?!?
Now is that outrageous or what????

 

[Forg]

I flew JQ the other and it wasn't completely terrible...... in fact, I kind of liked it ?!?!?
Now is that outrageous or what????

How late was the flight?